On 9/22/2012 6:11 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg

OK that's the classic example of the pin prick and feeling pain.

It works for the worlds of apples and oranges if you accept
Hume's and Leibniz's theory of causation, or at least my understanding of it,
namely that changes in the mental world are simply synchronized
with changes in the physical world and vice versa.

 Dear Roger,

The relation between the extended and non-extended is immediate and thus must be some form of isomorphism. I porpose the Stone Duality to be a valid and faithful representation of this isomorphism, following the suggestion by Pratt. The "coordination" of events of the body and states of the mind are successive alignments that we can either case into a global explanatory scheme, such as a PEN, or we can assume some Humean classical model. Perhaps both Hume and Leibniz where looking at the problem from opposite sides of a spectrum and each only seeing the pole. If We start with the consistent idea of a monad, as defined, and then consider what it means to have a coordination between the extended and non-extended aspects, we notice that these can be recast into an "inside" v. "outside" relation.

It was Descartes that failed to see that the problem is not explanation of the interaction between the mental and the physical, it is the problem of explanation of how bodies (minds) interact with other bodies (minds). Bruno has shown that it is possible to almost completely capture the relational scheme needed for minds within a framework of modal logic. He shows that all that is left is the explanation of what is a body. Newton et al, have given us a wonderful account of the schemata of the body but left unresolved the nature and necessity of the mind. What if both of these schemata are just restatements of the Polarity between what Leibniz and Hume considered as a problem of causality?

Given that, to see if an action is "caused" either by mental or physical
powers you simply look at the near-future mental
or physical situation.  Monads allow you to do that.

Don't conflate them. Think of the "causality " of each as contravariant, as "going in opposite directions". Monads can solve this if we understand that they have dual aspects. Mental aspects are such that their causation is "logical entailment" and this "looks back onto precedent" so as to not allow any state that would contradict any previous state. Physical aspects are causal in the usual understood sense of events causing other events in a temporal progression.

In that future state both the mental and physical situations
will have changed.

No! That would allow contradictions, and thus "White Rabbits", to occur. The key is to understand that we cannot assume a global arrangement that imposes a ordering on the Many, ala a Pre-Established Harmony. We have to allow for novelty and choice. We can achieve this in an explanation, but we need to consider that we are, at the end of the day, considering finite worlds that have bounding horizons.

  And anything changed can be considered
as being caused. That's the principle of sufficient reason.

We agree. but all of the Principles must be applicable. We cannot cherry pick the applications of the Principles. There is the Identity of Indiscernibles to consider, and others...

Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Craig Weinberg
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-21, 13:03:13
Subject: Re: Mind and brain as apples and oranges

On Friday, September 21, 2012 11:48:34 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
Hi Stephen P. King  and all

The problems imagined by materialists in invoking dualism
are just that - imaginary-- as long as mind is unextended
and brain is extended. And the so-called "hard problem" of consciousness
and the cartesian problem of interfacing or superimposing
mind and brain simply vanish. They're apples and  oranges.
They exist in different universes, which can superimpose,
the extended or physical "floating" in a sea of inextended
or nonphysical mind, or to use a better word, life.

But if I drink coffee (from the apples universe of extended stuff) then I get 
amped (in the oranges universe if unextended mind). Why does that problem 


Roger Clough, rcl...@verizon.net
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Stephen P. King
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-21, 11:04:59
Subject: Re: Numbers in Space

On 9/21/2012 4:34 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
But the numbers build an "arithmetic body"
The numbers arithmetically dream of a non arithmetic body.
and then populate a space with multiple copies of it... so that they
can "implement" the UD.
No, they are implemented by the UD, which exists like prime numbers
exists. Primitively.
      So the dreams "exists like prime numbers exists. Primitively. " and
the dreams are of "a non arithmetic body", thus "a non arithmetic body"
exists primitively. How is this different from anything that I have
tried to tell you of my ideas? We agree!!!!!! This is "dual aspect"
monism! I used to call it process dualism, but realized that that
working caused too much confusion.




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