On 9/20/2012 12:26 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 17:02, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the version of comp we are discussing here is independent of
physics, then shouldn't it be possible for us to program universal
machines using only empty space?
You are quite quick here, but have a good insight, as comp makes space
non clonable, indeterministic in the details, and plausibly Turing
universal, as QM confirms. The 0-body problem (the quantum vacuum) is
already Turing universal (I think). For classical physics you need
three bodies at least).
I agree 100% with you. That the quantum vacuum is TU, is obvious to
me. I think that Svozil has something written on this.. maybe or 't Hoft.
Length can be quantified, so why can't we just use millimeters or
Planck lengths as the basis for our enumeration, addition, and
multiplication and directly program from our mind to space?
Who we? In the universe nearby it costs a lot of energy/money/time to
handle matter already gigantic compared to the Planck length.
Only because we are trying to do things the classical way...
Or are you suggesting we are already simulated by the quantum vacuum.
Very plausible, but comp asks for justifying this in arithmetic.
I am not sure if that is possible because it seems to me that that
requires the specification of an uncountable infinity.
Of course, it would be hard to know where it was because we would be
constantly flying away from a space that was anchored to an absolute
position independent of Earth, the solar system, Milky Way, etc, but
that shouldn't matter anyhow since whatever method we use to directly
program in empty space with our minds should also give us access to
the results of the computations.
What do you think? Just as wafers of silicon glass could in theory be
functionally identical to a living brain, wouldn't it be equally
prejudiced to say that empty space isn't good enough to host the
computations of silicon?
Empty space, in any turing universal theory, is equivalent with
universal dovetailing. It is a trivial theory, as when we assume comp,
the space and belief in spaces have to be justified through number
But the numbers build an "arithmetic body" and then populate a
space with multiple copies of it... so that they can "implement" the UD.
Their dreaming is this! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamlands
The advantage of comp is that we can use math and more easily reason
clearly. We can formulate key parts of the mind body problem
I disagree. We can only formalize the mind, never the body, if we
wish to never be inconsistent.
And computationalists are cool as they don't think twice before giving
the restaurant menu to the puppet who asks politely. They don't judge
people from their religion, skin color, clothes, or if made of wood,
or metal or flesh, as long as they behave respectfully of course.
Maybe it is because they are really not people at all! They are
algorithms hiding in a puppet.
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