On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 5:54 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>wrote:
> When you say "Random mutation can wire together a small number of cells > such that if there is a sudden change in the light levels in the > environment, like a shadow covering it, a snail will retreat into its > shell", you have assumed sense and awareness to begin with. > I can reproduce the same rudimentary behavior with a few dozen transistors, or vacuum tubes, or mechanical relays; if you assume that simple snail has awareness then my machines do too. > > in theory, random mutation can't wire together anything. > Huh? > > Nothing can be wired together in a universe which is devoid of any > capacity for detections, responses, and their meta-consequences. > I don't know what you're talking about, a toy robot can and does detect things and makes responses that are determined by what it detects. > This is already awareness. > If particle X coming into contact with particle Y is awareness then everything is aware, which is equivalent to nothing is aware. For a concept to have meaning you need contrast. > You are already assuming a mechanism in which one thing can have > something to do with another thing > I'm not assuming machines exist, I know for a fact that they do. > where there can be a such thing as 'light levels' or other experiences > of coherent sensation/detection. You are already assuming participatory > efficacy in the perception event > Photoelectric detectors have existed for a long time and Einstein explained how they work in 1905, I'm not sure I'd say these machines "perceive" the light but if you want to use that word I won't argue the point. > > the snail will retreat into its shell means that something is able to > detect the external condition and causally effect the behavior of the cells > of the snail to the point that they physically contract and move into a > different position within the shell. > And a high school kid for his science fair project could make a robot snail that does the exact same thing, and he probably wouldn't even win first place. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.