Hi John Clark Unless computers can deal with inextended objects such as mind and experience, they cannot be conscious.
Consciousness is direct experience, computers can only deal in descriptions of experience. Everything that a computer does is, to my knowledge, at least in principle publicly available, since it uses publicly available symbols or code. Consciousness is direct experience, which cannot be put down in code any more than life can be put down in code. It is personal and not publicly available. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/7/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: John Clark Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-06, 13:56:30 Subject: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: ?>>I'm openly saying that a high school kid can make a robot that behaves sensibly with just a few transistors.? ? > Only because he lives in a universe in which the possibility of teleology is > fully supported from the start. We know with absolute certainty that the laws of physics in this universe allow for the creation of consciousness, we may not know how they do it but we know for a fact that it can be done. So how on Earth does that indicate that a conscious computer is not possible? Because it doesn't fart?? ? > you have erroneously assumed that intelligence is possible without sense > experience. No, I am assuming the exact OPPOSITE! In fact I'm not even assuming, I know for a fact that intelligent behavior WITHOUT consciousness confers a Evolutionary advantage, and I know for a fact that intelligent behavior WITH consciousness confers no additional Evolutionary advantage (and if you disagree with that point then you must believe that the Turing Test works for consciousness too and not just intelligence). And in spite of all this I know for a fact that Evolution DID produce consciousness at least once, therefore the only conclusion is that consciousness is a byproduct of intellagence. > Adenine and Thymine don't have purpose in seeking to bind with each other? I don't even know what a question like that means, who's purpose do you expect Adenine and Thymine to serve? > How do you know? I know because I have intelligence and Adenine and Thymine do not know because they have none, they only have cause and effect. > How is it different from our purpose in staying in close proximity to places > to eat and sleep? And to think that some people berated me for anthropomorphizing future supercomputers and here you are ? anthropomorphizing simple chemicals. >> Why is everything aware, why isn't everything not aware? Because then we wouldn't be aware of having this conversation. And we are aware of having this conversation because everything is aware, except of course for computers. ? >> Robots are something? > No, they aren't something. That is just a little too silly to argue. ? > Everything is awareness Are you certain, I thought everything is klogknee, or maybe its everything is 42. > evolution requires that something be alive to begin with. Evolution requires something that can reproduce itself, there is no universally agreed on definition of "life" so if you want to say that viruses and RNA strings and crystals and clay patterns and Von Neumann Machines are alive I won't argue with you and will agree that Evolution requires that something be alive to get started. ? John K Clark ? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.