On 07 Oct 2012, at 12:32, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
Hi Roger:
... and cognitive science , which study the hardware and
evolutionary psychology (that study the software or mind) assert
that this is true.
Partially true, as both the mainstream cognitive science and
psychology still does not address the mind-body issue, even less the
comp particular mind-body issue. In fact they use comp + weak
materialism, which can be shown contradictory(*).
The Kant idea that even space and time are creations of the mind is
crucial for the understanding and to compatibilize the world of
perceptions and phenomena with the timeless, reversible,
mathematical nature of the laws of physics that by the way,
according with M Theory, have also dualities between the entire
universe and the interior of a brane on the planck scale (we can not
know if we live in such a small brane).
OK. No doubt that Kant was going in the right (with respect to comp at
least) direction. But Kant, for me, is just doing 1/100 of what the
neoplatonists already did.
I don´t assume either if this mathematical nature is or not the
ultimate nature or reality
Any Turing universal part of it is enough for the ontology, in the
comp frame. For the epistemology, no mathematical theories can ever be
enough. Arithmetic viewed from inside is bigger than what *any* theory
can describe completely. This makes comp preventing any text to
capture the essence of what being conscious can mean, be it a bible,
string theory, or Peano Arithmetic. In a sense such theories are like
"new person", and it put only more mess in Platonia.
Probably the mind (or more specifically each instantiation of the
mind along the line of life in space-time) make use a sort of
duality in category theory between topological spaces and algebraic
structures (as Stephen told me and he can explain you) .
Many dualities exist, but as I have try to explain to Stephen, mind
and matter are not symmetrical things if we assume comp. The picture
is more that matter is an iceberg tip of "reality".
Eventually matter emerge from dreams coherence conditions. Dreams are
just the first person view on the relevant computations which exists
by elementary arithmetic.
For the perception of time or for the ordering of past events in
time since future events are unknown due to the increasing entropy,
the mind would make use of another mathematical structure with a
relation of order.
I agree, and N = {0, s(0), s(s(0)), ... } is quite enough, at least
with the addition and multiplication laws. You can define the order by
the order relation x < y, that you can define for example by Ez(x + z
= y & ~(z = 0)). That order is enough to define the order of the
computational steps in any computations.
With computationalism, physics is *literally* entirely reducible to
computer science (= number theory or combinator theory), in a sense
similar to the fact that current biology is literally reducible to
chemistry, itself reducible to physics. Note that computer science
refers to number crunching and syntactical manipulations, but also to
the many semantics of programs and computations, like Scott
denotational semantics, or like those derived from mathematical logic
(self-reference theory, model theory, Curry-Howard isomorphism, etc.).
Here, the use of self-reference makes it possible to explain the
*whole* of physics: that is the quanta *and* the qualia together, and
why they seems (and are) different. All universal numbers, when
looking inward, find that same universal qualia-quanta distinctions.
Note this makes comp testable, as you can compare the quanta behavior
found by machine introspection with what we can observe, and in that
sense, we can say that QM-without-collapse is quite an ally, up to
now, to the comp postulate. Newton physics, once assessed, would have
violate the comp theory.
Bruno
(*) http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/publications/SANE2004MARCHALAbstract.html
2012/10/6 Roger Clough <[email protected]>
http://www.friesian.com/kant.htm
Kant's "Copernican Revolution"
" Kant's most original contribution to philosophy is his "Copernican
Revolution,"
that, as he puts it, it is the representation that makes the object
possible
rather than the object that makes the representation possible. This
introduced
the human mind as an active originator of experience rather than
just a passive
recipient of perception. Something like this now seems obvious: the
mind could
be a tabula rasa, a "blank tablet," no more than a bathtub full of
silicon chips
could be a digital computer. Perceptual input must be processed,
i.e. recognized,
or it would just be noise -- "less even than a dream" or "nothing to
us," as Kant
alternatively puts it. "
.
Roger Clough, [email protected]
10/6/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Craig Weinberg
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-10-05, 10:42:30
Subject: Re: A "grand hypothesis" about order, life, and consciousness
On Friday, October 5, 2012 7:05:06 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
So it is reasonable to define life as that which can produce order
out of chaos" *. Since at least higher living beings
also possess consciousness, my "grand" hypothesis is that
life = consciousness = awareness = producing order out of chaos.
I agree Roger. I would add to this understanding however, a
logarithmic sense of increasing quality of experience.
human experience = consciousness > animal experience = awareness >
microbiotic experience = sensation > inorganic experience =
persistence of functions and structures.
I would not say producing order out of chaos because I think that
chaos is not primordial. Nonsense is a mismatch or attenuation of
sense, not the other way around. Order cannot be produced from chaos
unless chaos implicitly contains the potential for order...which
makes the production of orderly appearance really just a formality.
Craig
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