Hi Bruno Marchal  

> ROGER: OK, but computers can't experience anything, 
> it would be simulated experience. Not arbitrarily available. 

But that's what the brain does, simulate experience from the point of  
view of the owner or liver of the experience. According to some  
theory. You can't talk like if you knew that this is false. 

ROGER: Simulated experience would be  objective, such
as is given by the text of a novel (knowledge by description). True 
experience is the subjective experience of the mind --knowledge 
by aquaintance. These are obviously substantially different.

BRUNO: You are right, it is not the material computer who thinks, nor the  
physical brains who thinks, it is the owner (temporarily) of the  
brain, or of the computers which does the thinking (and that can  
include a computer itself, if you let it develop beliefs). 

ROGER: I don't think so. 

The owner of the brain is the self.

But although the owner of a computer will have a 
self, so would anybody else involved in creating
the computer or software also have one.

Are trying to say that I or anybody else can cause
the computer to be conscious ? If wave collapse causes
consciousness, there are objective theories of wave collapse 
called decoherence theories which seem more realistic to me. 

But I can't seem to see how these could work on a computer. 


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