Hi Bruno Marchal  

I sweep the undesireable stuff you mention into
"contingia" and keep platonia spotless and perfect.
Time-independent equations or propositions,
necessary and/or persistent truths. 

Platonia is objective thirdness = 3p
Secondness = relational, time-dependent truths (events) = 2p
Oneness= time allone= iondividual consciousness.= 1p

Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
11/10/2012  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 

============================================
----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Bruno Marchal  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-11-08, 10:15:37 
Subject: Re: Communicability 


On 08 Nov 2012, at 14:42, Stephen P. King wrote: 

> On 11/8/2012 6:38 AM, Roger Clough wrote: 
>> Hi Stephen P. King 
>> 
>> There are no accidents in Platonia. 
>> There are also perfect parabolas, because 
>> Platonia is the realm of necessary logic, 
>> of pure reason and math, which are inextended. 
> Hi Roger, 
> 
> There are no accidents in and all is perfect and there is no  
> extension or time Platonia because we define Platonia that way. But  
> if we are to take Platonia as our basic ontological theory we have a  
> problem, we are unable to explain the necessity of the imperfect  
> world of matter that has time and is imperfect. 

Not at all. After G?el and Co. we know that "Platonia", or simply  
Arithmetic is full of relative imperfections. The machines which lives  
in Platonia suffer all from intrinsic limitations. Now, we know that  
Platonia contains typhoon, black hole, big bangs, taxes and death.  
Platonism is not the same before and after G?el-Turing. 
We can perhaps say that comp admits a more nietzchean reading of  
Plato. This could be called neo-neo-platonism, which is neoplatonism +  
Church thesis. It is also very pythagorean, as the numbers can, and  
have to, be seen in a new perspective. 




> It is a utopia that, like all utopias, is put up as a means to avoid  
> the facts of our mortal coil. I am interested in ontologies that  
> imply the necessity of the imperfect and not a retreat to some  
> unaccessible perfection. 

The real shock with "modern" comp is that now we know that even heaven  
is not perfect. It contains many doors to hell. And vice versa: Hell  
contains doors to heaven. The main difference is that it is easy to  
find a door to hell in paradise, and it is hard to find a door to  
paradise in hell. And there is a large fuzzy frontier between both. 

The idea that arithmetical platonia is perfect is a rest of Hilbert's  
dream (or nightmare as some call it). With comp even God is not  
perfect. "He" is overwhelmed by the No?, and then the "universal  
soul" put a lot of mess in the whole. 
At least we can understand the fall of the soul, and the origin of  
matter. Matter is where God lost completely control, and that's why  
the Greek Platonists can easily identify matter with evil. 

It is the price of Turing universality. The existence of *partial*  
computable function, and, with comp, of processes which escapes all  
theories. The happy consequences is that, by such phenomena, life and  
consciousness resist to normative and reductionist thinking. The  
universal machine is born universal dissident. 

Bruno 




> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Thrown earthly objects are extended and 
>> thus fly contingently, since spin, humidity and 
>> dust particles can create flight imperfections 
>> and no measurements of their flights can be perfect. 
>> I am also told that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle 
>> does not depend on scale. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
>> 11/8/2012 
>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
>> From: Stephen P. King 
>> Receiver: everything-list 
>> Time: 2012-11-07, 19:45:05 
>> Subject: Re: Communicability 
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/7/2012 1:19 PM, meekerdb wrote: 
>> 
>> On 11/7/2012 5:52 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: 
>> Again: we are still left without an explanation as to how the  
>> accidental coincidence of a Platonic Truth and an actual fact of  
>> the world occurs. 
>> 
>> Why do you write 'accidental'? Platonia is our invention to  
>> describe classes of facts by abstracting away particulars. 
>> 
>> Brent 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Brent, 
>> 
>> It seems to be that when we abstract away the particulars we  
>> lose the ability to talk about particulars. 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Onward! 
>> 
>> Stephen 
>> 
> 
> 
> --  
> Onward! 
> 
> Stephen 
> 
> 
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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ 



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