On 11/10/2012 8:44 PM, Russell Standish wrote:
On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 05:14:47PM -0800, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/10/2012 1:31 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
No problem. UDA shows the equivalent propositions:  (MAT is weak
materialism: the doctrine that there is a primitive physical


I keep COMP as a working hypothesis, as I have no clue what really
MAT means or explains, and we don't find a contradiction, just a
weirdness close to quantum Everett.
But more accurately, we have not yet found a contradiction.  There
may be a contradiction with empirical observation, but COMP has not
made many definite predictions that could be contradicted.  That's
why I brought up the location of consciousness.  Empirically
consciousness is associated with a center body (an essential point
of the duplication experiment), yet so far as I can see COMP would
predict that a consciousness should have no particular location and
not reason to be associated with a particular body.

I think the argument is that association with a body (or brain)
is required for intersubjectivity between minds. It is an
anti-solipsism requirement.
Dear Russell,

This is the same idea that I have been trying to address with Bruno. He does not seem to notice that without a means to define a 3p localizability that there is no way for minds to distinguish themselves from each other. This leads, it seems to me, to a solipsism situation for a mind.

Personally, I think the association is required for self-awareness,
leading me to the conclusion that self-awareness (aka Loebianity) is
required for consciousness.

But is Loebianity necessary for the ability of a consciousness to know that it is conscious or is it necesary just to be conscious w/o knowning that it is? I am ignoring considerations of reportability for now...

  I know that I disagree with Bruno on this
matter, who sees consciousness everywhere, but Loebianity more restricted.

    Does Bruno agree with panprotopsychism?



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