On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 3:18 AM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, and there are two of them and so there are 2 "heres" and 2 "not
>> theres".  So what ONE and only ONE thing does John Clark the 
>> experimenterenter into the lab notebook??
> > You are hopeless.  I've answered this at least 10 times.

Avoided the question at least 10 times. Jason #1 says Washington and Jason
#2 says Moscow, there is only one lab notebook and only one experimenter,
so what one and only one check mark should the experimenter put in that one
and only one lab notebook, the one next to the word "Washington" or the one
next to the word "Moscow"?

> > Can anyone (the 1 or 2 remaining John Clarks, being the only person (or
> people) left on Earth) say whether he was transported randomly to one of
> the two locations, or duplicated to two different locations?

That depends on how much is known. Subjective probability depends on the
amount of information, or lack of it, the person involved has; and if Many
Worlds is correct then all probabilities are subjective. If you told me
nothing about the machine and just said walk into the chamber and I did so
and found myself in Moscow I would have no way of knowing that there was
another John Clark in Washington, nor would I have any idea why of all the
cities in the world you chose to transport me to Moscow, I would not even
know that a reason existed.

> My bet: you will find some excuse for not answering or merely ignore this
> question

You loose.

 > as it brings too close to first person indeterminacy for your comfort.

Well of course I'm uncomfortable with it, most people are, most people want
to know what the future will hold but we don't; and that's all "first
person indeterminacy" is, a pompous way of saying "I dunno".

> And you proved matter is something not found in mathematics how?
>> I don't know how to fly to Tokyo on the blueprints of a 747. Do you?
> And you proved matter is something not found in mathematics how?

I don't know how to fly to Tokyo on the blueprints of a 747. Do you?

> >> If pronouns are not ambiguous John Clark may or may not have the
>> ability to provide answers, but at least John Clark will understand the
>> question.
> Or if John Clark is uncomfortable with where he perceives the line of
> questions and reasoning to be heading be may make up some excuse about
> pronouns or answer a different question than was asked.

Then simply call John Clark's bluff and stop using personal pronouns with
abandon as it their meaning was as clear in a world with duplicating
machines as it is in our world without them.

> >>So both are "you" but "you only see through the eyes of one of them". So
>> which one is blind.
> >Neither is blind, but each sees through only one pair of eyes.

> You (subjectively) survived

Yes, and subjective survival is all I'm interested in, I'm not even sure
what objective survival means.

 >as one of them,

One? Which one?

> >>  if MWI is true in each universe there is one and only one
>> photographic plate and one and only one spot on it;

>  > Not in the cosmological form of MWI.


> As I said before, no information is gained unless you are the one who
> enters the duplication chamber.

And that's the difference, a physicist doesn't have to personally squeeze
through those 2 tiny slits to do the experiment, that's the electrons job,
nevertheless he can learn something from just watching it. Nothing is
learned from watching Bruno's experiment.

> You measure the spin state of an electron on the x-axis and find it is
> left.  MWI says your duplicate in the other branch found it was right.  One
> of you saw the left-state and became the "saw the left-state man" and the
> other saw the right-state and became the "saw the right-state man".
>  Through the split, duplication, and observance of something different,
> each duplicate has acquired the subjective feeling of observing a random
> unpredictable event.


>  Enough time and electrons have been wasted repeating ourselves.

I agree, many free electrons have given their lives for this thread and
there is not much to show for their sacrifice.

 John K Clark


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