Hi Bruno Marchal 

I am suggestings that such quandries be resolved on multiple 
levels in the same universe, not multiple universes.
Occam's Razor.




[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/21/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-12-21, 10:21:22
Subject: Re: On the need for perspective and relations in modelling the mind




On 20 Dec 2012, at 17:40, Roger Clough wrote:


Hi Bruno Marchal 

This is just an intuition. IMHO
conventional physics and math applies to this bifurcated world,
where every action produces a reaction, the world is
objective/subjective, magnetic monopoles are impossible,
etc.,etc. 


I am not sure this explains anything. 







This also shows up in quantum physics, where a bit can be
both 1 and 0 and the same time. 


But not in the same universe. 
Not in the same sheaf of computations (with comp).








Here we obviously
have the concidence of opposites, but since it is
clearly mathematical/logical, perhaps there is some
coincidence of opposites math or logic that can explain 
such weirdness.  


For a realist, and truth believer, "weirdness" is just a sign that we miss 
something, or that we are still not familiar with some new idea. With comp F=ma 
is far more weird than all QM weirdness, which are rather easy to explain, as 
we belong to infinities of overlapping and competing computations.







Maybe it's just that double roots appear in many of 
the equations. But often if this happens, one root cannot exist
in this world as we know it, so no dilemma.




OK.


Bruno








[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/20/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-12-19, 14:59:12
Subject: Re: On the need for perspective and relations in modelling the mind




On 18 Dec 2012, at 15:55, Roger Clough wrote:


Hi Bruno Marchal 

It would be interesting to see which logical statements apply
to the monadic=quantum domain, which is beyond space and time.
Part of Quantum Information theory. 


It is intresting of course and QM is a jewel, but you have quick in making 
identfication. QM should be how the digital is seen by the digital entities, 
and must be derived and not assume if you want the correct quanta-qualia 
relation.


Bruno







[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/18/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-12-16, 10:14:38
Subject: Re: On the need for perspective and relations in modelling the mind




On 16 Dec 2012, at 14:49, Roger Clough wrote:


Hi Bruno Marchal 

Pardon my ignorance, but what is Dt ?


Consistency of 0 = 0, or simply self-consistency.  It is the modal Diamond in 
the modal logic of provability). It is the same as ~Bf (not provable false). D 
is the same as ~B ~   (like it exists is the same as ~Forall ~)


In most modal logic, we have the "Aristotelian square", with B = necessary, and 
D= ~B~= possible.


Bp     ~Bp
B~p   ~B~p


In the alethic (Leibnizian) mode:  Bp = necessary p (true in all worlds), ~B~p 
= possible = true in at least one world (= not false in any world). In most 
classical modal logic systems, we have that:


~Bp = D~p
~Dp = B~p


In particular ~Bf = D~f = Dt   (t = "0=0", and t = ~(0=0), or simply they are 
the constant propositional truth and falsity).


So the negation transforms B into D, and vice versa. 


You can test this on all intuitive modality Where B and D represents 
respectively:


B = obligatory and D = permitted   (deontic modal logic)
B = everywhere and D = somewhere (space logic)
B = all the time and D = sometime (logic of time)
B = probability and D = consistency (logic of provability)
B = necessary and D = possibly (Alethic logic)
B = for all x, and D = it exists a x (quantifier)


All such modalities will obeys different axioms, of course.


Bruno












[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/16/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Bruno Marchal 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-12-16, 04:47:59
Subject: Re: On the need for perspective and relations in modelling the mind


On 06 Dec 2012, at 18:58, Richard Ruquist wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> The 1p is not left out. Eventually comp singles out eight person 
>> points of
>> view. If you think comp left out the person, you miss the meaning 
>> of the
>> comp hope, or the comp fear.
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>
> Why just 8? I would have expected every possible "person points pf 
> view"
> consistent with MWI. Richard

There is 8 main types of points of view given by:

p
Bp
Bp & p
Bp & Dt
Bp & Dt & p

See sane04 for more detail. Bp is the arithmetical formula beweisbar 
of G?l 1931, p is an arbitrary Sigma_1 sentences.

In fact it is 4 + 4*infinity, as you have also all B^n p + D^m t with 
n < m. This gives a graded set of quantum logics.

And they all have different "color" fro different machines, that is, 
the logic of those points of view are the same for all correct 
machines, but their explicit content can be completely different.

Bruno


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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