On 12/23/2012 8:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:


On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:22, meekerdb wrote:

On 10/26/2012 6:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 25 Oct 2012, at 18:57, meekerdb wrote:

Good points. The contrast is usually qualia-v-quanta. I think color can be communicated and we have an "RGB" language for doing so that makes it more quanta than qualia. So extending your point to Schrodinger, if you're a wine connoisseur you have a language for communicating the taste of wine. Most of us don't speak it, but most people don't speak differential equations either. But those are all things that can be shared. The pain of a headache generally can't be perceived by two different people. But there are experiments that use small electric shocks to try to produce objective scales of pain. So I think you are right that it is a matter of having developed the language; I just don't think color is the best example.

I disagree here. No qualia are communciable in the sense that quanta, or numbers, are communicable. We can talk and understand talk on color only because we bet that we share similar experience in front of electromagnetic wave with certain wave-length.

We only agree on numbers and counting because we distinguish objects in the 
same way.

We only can distinguish objects in the same way because we have brain which can use numbers and count, in the universal way.

We bet it is universal and that seems to work (most of the time) - but the same is true of representing colors by numbers. We do it that way, instead of representing numbers by colors, because our discrimination of colors is not quite as good as our discrimination of objects (e.g. some people are color blind).

Brent




Otherwise your mother could not have taught you to count.

I still feel guilty how much I made my mom suffering on this.

1, 2,  What!?!, I stopped already at 2. What is that? Why?

With the amoeba I got acquainted with the 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, ... idea.

But it will take me the reading of Nagel & Newman "Gödel's proof" to get the 0, 1, 2, 3, ... profoundness, and to decide to study mathematics instead of biology.

Bruno




Brent

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