Hi Bruno Marchal No doubt you are right, except that the brain is physical, while, as I understand it, a UTM is mental.
[Roger Clough], [[email protected]] 12/24/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-24, 05:36:51 Subject: Re: Dennett and others on qualia On 24 Dec 2012, at 00:31, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/23/2012 8:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> On 26 Oct 2012, at 21:22, meekerdb wrote: >> >>> On 10/26/2012 6:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> >>>> On 25 Oct 2012, at 18:57, meekerdb wrote: >>>> >>>>> Good points. The contrast is usually qualia-v-quanta. I think >>>>> color can be communicated and we have an "RGB" language for >>>>> doing so that makes it more quanta than qualia. So extending >>>>> your point to Schrodinger, if you're a wine connoisseur you have >>>>> a language for communicating the taste of wine. Most of us >>>>> don't speak it, but most people don't speak differential >>>>> equations either. But those are all things that can be shared. >>>>> The pain of a headache generally can't be perceived by two >>>>> different people. But there are experiments that use small >>>>> electric shocks to try to produce objective scales of pain. So >>>>> I think you are right that it is a matter of having developed >>>>> the language; I just don't think color is the best example. >>>> >>>> I disagree here. No qualia are communciable in the sense that >>>> quanta, or numbers, are communicable. We can talk and understand >>>> talk on color only because we bet that we share similar >>>> experience in front of electromagnetic wave with certain wave- >>>> length. >>> >>> We only agree on numbers and counting because we distinguish >>> objects in the same way. >> >> We only can distinguish objects in the same way because we have >> brain which can use numbers and count, in the universal way. > > We bet it is universal and that seems to work (most of the time) - > but the same is true of representing colors by numbers. We do it > that way, instead of representing numbers by colors, because our > discrimination of colors is not quite as good as our discrimination > of objects (e.g. some people are color blind). We don't have to bet the brain is (Turing universal), we can prove it. We bet on Church thesis, simply. Bruno > > Brent > >> >> >> >>> Otherwise your mother could not have taught you to count. >> >> I still feel guilty how much I made my mom suffering on this. >> >> 1, 2, What!?!, I stopped already at 2. What is that? Why? >> >> With the amoeba I got acquainted with the 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, ... >> idea. >> >> But it will take me the reading of Nagel & Newman "G?el's proof" >> to get the 0, 1, 2, 3, ... profoundness, and to decide to study >> mathematics instead of biology. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >>> >>> Brent >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> . >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected] >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en >>> . >>> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en > . > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
