On 27 Dec 2012, at 20:13, meekerdb wrote:

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On 12/27/2012 3:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 26 Dec 2012, at 20:58, meekerdb wrote:On 12/26/2012 1:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 24 Dec 2012, at 19:30, meekerdb wrote:On 12/24/2012 2:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:We don't have to bet the brain is (Turing universal), we canprove it.Can we? How would you prove than every person's brain cancompute every computable function?By teaching them to reduce combinators, which is very simple, orby teaching them to play the Game Of Life, or to interpret a LISPExpression, or more simply by teaching them how to add andmultiply natural numbers. If they succeed in one of those task,they can emulate any Universal Turing Machine, and are proved tobe themselves Turing Universal. With comp that is enough toconclude that their brain is Turing universal.But that doesn't show they can compute every computable function;some functions will take too much memory space and somecomputations are very long so there will inevitably be mistakes.That's the fate of ALL universal number. They have NEVER enoughmemories. The available 'tape' is always too much short.They always feel like having something more to say. And they alwaysmake mistake, unless they are ideally correct, a condition which ismet only in the universal number's mind.Computable does not mean, concretely computable. That would makesaddition and multuplication NOT computable, as nobody can add the10^10000 first digits of PI.BrunoRight, it makes 'computable' an approximate notion.

It makes "concretely computable" an approximate notion.

`Computable, on the contrary, is made 100% mathematical, once we`

`assume Church's or Turing's thesis.`

`Your laptop, and your brain can be said to approximate the immaterial`

`machine(s) you are, in the comp picture. Like a quantum field`

`approximates your brain, and arithmetic approximates the quantum`

`fields, etc.`

`We still have to understand why the quantum fields seems to get the`

`right "comp"-measure.`

But then that breaks the chain of inference that fundamental physicsis inconsistent with CTM.

Fundamental physics has not been shown inconsistent with CTM.

`Metaphysical physicalism has been shown inconsistent with CTM, and`

`this by using the mathematical non approximate use of computable.`

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.