On 08 Jan 2013, at 18:53, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/8/2013 6:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 07 Jan 2013, at 19:53, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Theism, like atheism, is unprovable.
Why is that? You're saying that even though God is omnipotent He
is incapable of proving His existence to us. I can prove my
existence to you
I doubt this. You can give me evidence, but not a proof, unless a
trivial definition of "you". Proving is only theoretical. We cannot
prove the existence of anything real.
You are using a narrow conception of 'proof', i.e. logical proof.
But there is also empirical proof and legal 'proof beyond a
reasonable doubt'.
Yes. I use proof in the strong sense.
We can just find evidence supporting (pace David Deutsch) or
refuting some hypotheses. In science we never know as such.
If you cannot know anything except what you can prove in mathematics
You cannot know that too. Well, except perhaps for arithmetic.
then you never know anything except tautologies of the form "If x
then x."
Arithmetic is far richer than tautologies. Do you think Fermat theorem
is a tautology? If yes, then you just mean "theorem", but not all
theorem can be proved as "if x then x", you need no logical axiom as
well, that is some theoretical axioms. This entails already the
existence of the contingencies and local realities.
Bruno
Brent
Bruno
but God can not. That seems a bit odd to me.
John K Clark
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