On 17 Jan 2013, at 13:02, Telmo Menezes wrote:
I'm agnostic about the environmental apocalipse.
Me too.
Producing useful scientific theories about complex systems is
already a daunting task. When the issue is so heavily politicised by
both sides, it becomes almost impossible. Anyone that has ever done
experimental research knows how easy it is to lie with statistics
and graphs. One would have to study climate science for years just
to get to the point of being able to have an informed opinion. The
thing is so ideological now that you can't trust anyone to tell you
the truth.
Is big industry funding a misinformation campaign to protect their
profits? Sounds plausible.
Are bureaucratic anti-capitalist "scientists" distorting the facts
to protect their careers? Sounds plausible.
Things we know for sure: fossil fules are a finite resource. The
current human population is only possible because of fossil fuel
energy. If we don't find an alternative, we will eventually face a
mass extinction event.
I agree. Even with no evidence at of global warming and pollution, we
have to be cautious. Locally we have only one planet accessible in our
normal worlds. It is a rare place where precaution makes sense.
I'm not sure such an alternative exists, but maybe I'll be proven
wrong (at least for my 1p) by MWI and QS.
Coming back to hemp should be the good idea. Oil and wood have
replaced Hemp (for textile, fuel, paper and medication) just from lies
and greed. The possible global warming might just be another
consequences on the lies on cannabis, drugs etc. Hemp was the oil,
before oil. It is the plant that the human have the most cultivated,
with maize and wheat, since a very long time. The idea that it is
something dangerous is a total complete recent construct, and has only
been a Trojan horse for bandits (probably the one losing the job after
the end of alcohol prohibition) to get power.
Politics makes not much sense, as long as prohibition persists.
Bruno
"If people let government decide which foods they eat and medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the
souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com
> wrote:
Count me as an heretic denialist of the ecological Apocalipsis. The
Michael Mann hockey stick is a fraud as you can verify in the mails
leaked in the Climate Research Unit. You must read the mails to have
an idea of the context in which the global warming swindle was
growth. 90% of the mails between climate scientists around the world
were related with the need for government money for department
growth. And this includes people of many US and EU universitary
institutions. This is Specially true for the experimental data,
made most of them by russian scientist in a vanishing USSR that
desperately needed money from the west.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/08/23/make-your-own-mannian-hockey-stick-at-home/
Al Gore (peace upon it), The Michael Mann (the merciful and
compassionate) prophet added still more fallacies. I know that i
deserve the hot Hell for saying something about the sacred books of
IPCC, a political body made of power-hungry bureaucrats of sicience,
that consistently have denied or diminished any other sources of
climate influence but anthropogenic CO2, but here I am.
2013/1/17 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>
On 1/16/2013 3:54 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 1/16/2013 1:52 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/16/2013 1:45 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
Now the same PR firms are hired by the oil and coal industry to
obfuscate the problem of global warming.
And meanwhile we disregard other options out of ideology, namely
geo-engineering.
They are disregarded not out of ideology; they are disregarded
because the global warming denial industry has succeeded in
obfuscating the science so that people think there is great
uncertainty about the problem. Of course they are not going to do
anything about a problem they are not sure exists, and certainly
not anything so drastic, and whose consequences are as difficult
to predict, as geo-engineering.
Brent
There are a couple of very interesting proposals on that front
that are dismissed without proper thought. Global warming can
kill us all, but so can energy shortage.
Hi Brent,
Why is it that almost all of the Green proposals are exactly
what would be required to push civilization back to the Stone age,
once implemented fully?
And those would be what? Solar power, geo-thermal power, tidal
power, wind power, liquid thorium reactors - which exactly do you
see as stone age technology?
Frankly, I worry more about the impending Ice age which is about
over due if the cycle that we see in the Vostok icecore data is real.
<mime-attachment.gif>
Maybe you wouldn't be so worried if you noticed that CO2 peaked at
300ppm on all those warm cycles and it's now at 390ppm and climbing
so fast it's just a vertical line on the above time scale (unlike
the previous cycles). Or maybe you're just part of the denialist
industry.
Brent
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