On Sunday, January 27, 2013 10:06:37 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 1/27/2013 2:35 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > I've been following this group a lot. I read it everyday and enjoy all of > the wonderful stuff that comes up, even if some of it tends towards ad > hominem, argument from authority, and petitio principi. Hey, we're humans, > right? That means we get to make these fallacies, in good conscience or > bad. > > Anyway, I wondered about what anyone/everyone thought about the notion of > 'chosenness' as a way to understand where we are here in the world. It > seems to me that concepts like MWI, Bruno's comp/mech hypothesis and the > 'dreams of numbers' ideas of subjectivity, and even Leibniz's 'best of all > possible worlds' don't actually do something like flee away from our > everyday responsibility to accept the basic fact that we have been CHOSEN > -- and when I say this, please don't immediately put a bunch of theological > baggage on it. I'm not saying God chose this reality as opposed to another, > although this might be a convenient shorthand. But what I am saying is > that, out of all the staggering possibilities that we know exist with > regards to our universe, our galaxy, our solar system, our planet, our > society, and even our individual selves, things could have very easily > turned out to be different than they were. The fact that they have turned > out in just this way and not another indicates this kind of chosenness, and > along with it, comes a certain degree of responsibility, I guess? > > It seems to me that all the various 'everything' hypotheses (MWI, comp, > Leibniz, and others) try to apply the Copernican principle to its breaking > point. True enough, there is from a purely 3p point of view nothing special > about our cosmic situation re: our planet and our sun. BUT, from an > existential 1p point of view there is a huge privilege that we have, i.e. > we are sentient observers, who love, feel pain, feel desire, and long for > transcendence. > > > There's a desire to respect the Copernican principle (don't assume we're > 'special') but also to avoid randomness. This then leads to the hypothesis > that *everything* (in some sense) exists. That way you avoid randomness > without assuming that we're special. > > > Moreover, the 3p point of view is a pure abstraction, kind of like eating > the picture of a meal rather than the actual meal. How do we know what any > kind of 3p account of truth would be? What would it even look like? A > universe with no observers. A falling tree without a hearer/listener. This, > to me, is nonsense. > > Aren't things like MWI of quantum physics and comp hypothesis of universal > dovetailer trying to, at a fundamental and existential level, an attempt to > try to run away from the concreteness and absolute 'givenness' (gift) of > the world as we find it? And isn't our role, in creation, as freely > choosing beings (sorry, John Clark, free will is more than just a noise) to > choose what will make other people with us now and in the future feel more > love and less pain? And isn't this why we were chosen? > > > To say we're chosen is just another way to avoid randomness. >
To say we are avoiding randomness is to assume that there is something other than randomness to be embraced. Why should anything that exists want to avoid randomness? Craig > > Brent > > > I'll go back to lurking now, but I'd appreciate any thoughts you might > have on this reflection of mine. > > Cheers, > > Dan > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] <javascript:>. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2639/6054 - Release Date: 01/24/13 > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
