On Sunday, January 27, 2013 10:06:37 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>
>  On 1/27/2013 2:35 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: 
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I've been following this group a lot. I read it everyday and enjoy all of 
> the wonderful stuff that comes up, even if some of it tends towards ad 
> hominem, argument from authority, and petitio principi. Hey, we're humans, 
> right? That means we get to make these fallacies, in good conscience or 
> bad. 
>
> Anyway, I wondered about what anyone/everyone thought about the notion of 
> 'chosenness' as a way to understand where we are here in the world. It 
> seems to me that concepts like MWI, Bruno's comp/mech hypothesis and the 
> 'dreams of numbers' ideas of subjectivity, and even Leibniz's 'best of all 
> possible worlds' don't actually do something like flee away from our 
> everyday responsibility to accept the basic fact that we have been CHOSEN 
> -- and when I say this, please don't immediately put a bunch of theological 
> baggage on it. I'm not saying God chose this reality as opposed to another, 
> although this might be a convenient shorthand. But what I am saying is 
> that, out of all the staggering possibilities that we know exist with 
> regards to our universe, our galaxy, our solar system, our planet, our 
> society, and even our individual selves, things could have very easily 
> turned out to be different than they were. The fact that they have turned 
> out in just this way and not another indicates this kind of chosenness, and 
> along with it, comes a certain degree of responsibility, I guess? 
>
> It seems to me that all the various 'everything' hypotheses (MWI, comp, 
> Leibniz, and others) try to apply the Copernican principle to its breaking 
> point. True enough, there is from a purely 3p point of view nothing special 
> about our cosmic situation re: our planet and our sun. BUT, from an 
> existential 1p point of view there is a huge privilege that we have, i.e. 
> we are sentient observers, who love, feel pain, feel desire, and long for 
> transcendence. 
>
>
> There's a desire to respect the Copernican principle (don't assume we're 
> 'special') but also to avoid randomness.  This then leads to the hypothesis 
> that *everything* (in some sense) exists.  That way you avoid randomness 
> without assuming that we're special.
>
>
> Moreover, the 3p point of view is a pure abstraction, kind of like eating 
> the picture of a meal rather than the actual meal. How do we know what any 
> kind of 3p account of truth would be? What would it even look like? A 
> universe with no observers. A falling tree without a hearer/listener. This, 
> to me, is nonsense. 
>
> Aren't things like MWI of quantum physics and comp hypothesis of universal 
> dovetailer trying to, at a fundamental and existential level, an attempt to 
> try to run away from the concreteness and absolute 'givenness' (gift) of 
> the world as we find it? And isn't our role, in creation, as freely 
> choosing beings (sorry, John Clark, free will is more than just a noise) to 
> choose what will make other people with us now and in the future feel more 
> love and less pain? And isn't this why we were chosen? 
>
>
> To say we're chosen is just another way to avoid randomness.
>

To say we are avoiding randomness is to assume that there is something 
other than randomness to be embraced.

Why should anything that exists want to avoid randomness?

Craig

 

>
> Brent
>
>
> I'll go back to lurking now, but I'd appreciate any thoughts you might 
> have on this reflection of mine. 
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dan
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