On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 05 Feb 2013, at 14:14, Roger Clough wrote:
>
>  Hi Bruno,
>
> The definitons of simulation and emulation I can find both use the word
> "imitation".
> Can you explain what you mean as being the difference between the two ?
>
>
> A computer can simulate a storm. It can also simulate another computer. In
> this case, when we simulate digital events by a digital machine, we can
> define a notion of totally faithful simulation. This what is called an
> emulation. Some mac, for example,  emulate some PC.
> In fact any universal machine can emulate all possible digital machinery.
> This is why they are said universal.
>

I would argue that "totally faithful simulation" is not enough. Simulation
implies a simulated environment, while emulation has to work in the
emulated thing's environment. This is trivial for a mac emulating a PC. It
already has a keyboard, a display and a mouse. If you want to emulate fire,
it actually has to be able to burn you. Or emulating a complete human being
would require a robot.


>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
>  *Simulation* - *Definition* and More from the Free Merriam-Webster 
> *...*<http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/simulation>
> www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/*simulation*
> a : the *imitative *representation of the functioning of one system or
> process by means of the functioning of another <a computer *simulation*of an 
> industrial process>
> *...*
> **
>  Definition of *EMULATION*
>  1
> *obsolete* *:* ambitious or envious rivalry
>  2
> *:* ambition or endeavor to equal or excel others (as in achievement)
>  3
> *a* *:* *imitation* <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/imitation>
> *b* *:* the use of or technique of using an 
> emulator<http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/emulator>
> — *em·u·la·tive* *adjective*
> — *em·u·la·tive·ly* *adverb*
>
>
>
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> *From:* Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
> *Receiver:* everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
> *Time:* 2013-02-04, 17:07:32
> *Subject:* Re: context, comp, and multiverses
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, February 4, 2013 9:59:09 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, February 3, 2013 12:11:17 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  On 01 Feb 2013, at 16:42, Roger Clough wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hi Bruno Marchal
>>>>> �
>>>>> I would think that each universe provides its own distinctive
>>>>> context to any燾alculation, including comp.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Comp is the assumption that we are Turing emulable.
>>>>> That notion is made very solid by Church's thesis.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I don't think that we can assume that a Turing emulation of us is
>>>> actually "us". To the contrary, a Turing emulation of geometry is not
>>>> geometry. A Turing emulation of water can be the same as a Turing emulation
>>>> of water in another Turing emulated virtual world, but no emulated drop of
>>>> Turing water can ever be a genuine drop of water within the world that we
>>>> actually live in. It doesn't matter that 17 is still prime when you are
>>>> dying of dehydration.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Craig,
>>>
>>> Still trying to understand your theory better. What's your position on
>>> the following statements:
>>>
>>> - The human brain can be Turing emulated.
>>>
>>
>> I see emulation is a figure of speech rather than a physical reality. Can
>> fire be Turing emulated? Maybe, but you can only use it to emulate the
>> cooking of emulated food. I can make a single emulation of fire which will
>> work for any number of virtual worlds, but none of them can actualize fire
>> on the level of the machine itself.
>>
>
> Aren't you confusing emulation with simulation? If we emulate a brain in a
> computer, we can connect its input and outputs to sensors and actuators in
> the real world.
> �
>
>>
>> So can publicly detectable brain activity be Turing emulated? Sure, but
>> it is a sculpture.
>>
>
> I see what you mean, but more on that later.
> �
>
>>
>>
>>> - There is some (possibly mysterious) link between the physical human
>>> brain and consciousness.
>>>
>>>
>> The human brain is the public facing spatial presentation of human
>> quality awareness. It's not a link between them because they are actually
>> the same thing, only expressed publicly rather than privately.
>>
>
> Ok. I'm ok with that. I would still call it a link, but no nitpicking is
> necessary.
> �
>
>>
>> It's a bit confusing since private awareness is longitudinal through all
>> time whereas public structures are orthogonal - latitudinal across all
>> space but constrained to as single instant of time.
>>
>> See if my post from last night makes it clearer:
>> http://multisenserealism.com/2013/02/04/chalmeroff-scale-revisited/
>>
>
> Interesting post.
>
> You say:�
> "In other words, an experience is ineffable when the subject derives
> meaning from generated information which supervenes on an extensive
> personal history."
> �
> So my question is, why can't the generated information supervene on an
> emulation of my brain?
>
>
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>>
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