2013/2/6 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> > > On 05 Feb 2013, at 19:04, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2013/2/5 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> > >> >> On 05 Feb 2013, at 18:10, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> 2013/2/5 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> >> >>> >>> On 05 Feb 2013, at 14:34, Roger Clough wrote: >>> >>> Hi meekerdb >>> >>> >>> There's nothing wrong with science as science. >>> But a problem arises when you apply the results to theology. >>> >>> Two completely different worlds. >>> >>> >>> That's indeed a point where string atheists agree with string christian. >>> Let us try to be not serious on theology, so we can assert the fairy tales. >>> Strong Christian are happy because they feel like they can contradict the >>> scientific evidences, and the atheists are happy so they can continue to >>> mock the christians, and continue to sleep on their own (materialist) dogma. >>> >> >> You put meaning in atheism which is not there... an atheist can perfectly >> be an idealist... materialism is not part of the definition of atheism. >> >> >> Definition here are often contradictory. Some years ago, the definition >> keep changing. >> >> Can you give me the name of an atheist who is idealist? >> > > I would say I am. Computationalism is a sort of idealistic monism. > > > > Perhaps. But you have still to assume enough of arithmetical truth, which > plays the role of Plotinus' ONE, that is Plato Parmenidian God. So you > believe in God in the greek and/or comp general sense of the term >
Maybe but that term is misleading, god as understood by 99% of the population is a being/person, platonic ONE is not, neither is the platonic demiurge. As I said in an earlir post, I do believe in some sort of reality "maker". But I do not believe in any "personified" god/godlike force. But when you talk to religious zealot, saying you're agnostic, means to them you didn't yet choose their god.... I don't believe in any god understood as the current shared meaning of 99% of the population on earth. So you'd better use One or other word to mean your "god in the greek and/or comp general sense". Using the god word is only misleading, and will lead reader to misunderstand what you're saying (same thing with theology). Regards, Quentin > (something responsible for our existence, or ultimate reality, etc.). > > Also, it is misleading to describe comp as idealism. Idealism makes all of > reality a product of the mind, which in comp is defined in term of number > relation that we have to assume at the start. So when we assume arithmetic, > we cannot assume it to be a product of the mind, given that we need > arithmetic to define the mind. > > Bruno > > > > > > >> >> Bruno >> > > Quoting wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism > > "Metaphysical atheism... includes all doctrines that hold to metaphysical > monism (the homogeneity of reality). Metaphysical atheism may be either: > > a) absolute — an explicit denial of God's existence associated with > materialistic monism (all materialistic trends, both in ancient and modern > times); > > *b) relative* — the implicit denial of God in all philosophies that, > while they accept the existence of an absolute, conceive of the absolute as > not possessing any of the attributes proper to God: transcendence, a > personal character or unity. Relative atheism is associated with idealistic > monism (pantheism, panentheism, deism)." > > Regards, > Quentin > > >> >> >> >> Quentin >> >>> >>> That does not give much place for the genuine inquiry, I think. >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >>> *From:* meekerdb <[email protected]> >>> *Receiver:* everything-list <[email protected]> >>> *Time:* 2013-02-04, 13:48:50 >>> *Subject:* Re: Topical combination >>> >>> On 2/4/2013 7:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 03 Feb 2013, at 12:30, Roger Clough wrote: >>> >>> Hi John Mikes >>> � >>> It says >>> � >>> "The Fabric of Eternity is the author's personal view of the Universe >>> that allows for science and theology to explore the wonders of creation in >>> peaceful unison.' >>> � >>> IMHO that is completely misguided, because the worlds they understand燼re >>> separate magisteria, to use� >>> Stephan Jay Gould's phrase.� Science deals with the physical world, and >>> theology deals with >>> the nonphysical world. >>> >>> >>> Only an Aristotelian can say "science deals with the physical world". >>> This sums up physicalism. >>> >>> A Platonist says that science is just the modest tool/method to deal >>> with any subject. >>> >>> >>> Except it was Plato who thought he could understand the world by just >>> thinking about it, while it was Aristotle who went out to observe and let >>> the world teach him.� So who was modest and who was arrogant? >>> >>> Brent >>> >>> Allowing the abandon of science in the theological field can only be >>> an invitation to the bad faith in there, and to the "don't ask" mentality. >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> *DreamMail* - The first mail software supporting source tracking >>> www.dreammail.org >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
