On 02 Mar 2013, at 21:58, meekerdb wrote:

## Advertising

On 3/2/2013 1:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 01 Mar 2013, at 20:37, meekerdb wrote:On 3/1/2013 8:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 01 Mar 2013, at 16:28, meekerdb wrote:On 3/1/2013 7:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 28 Feb 2013, at 20:29, meekerdb wrote:On 2/28/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote:On 2/28/2013 10:33 AM, John Clark wrote:On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:>> It is a basic law of logic that if X is not Y and X isnot not Y then X is gibberish,> X = alcohol Y = poison. becomes "alcohol is not poison and alcohol isn't not poison"Exactly, and 2 negatives, like "isn't not" cancel each otherout so you get "alcohol is not a poison and alcohol is apoison" which is gibberish just like I said.Alcohol both is and isn't a poison, duh! It is thequantity that makes the difference. Are you too coarse tonotice that there are distinctions in the real world that arenot subject to the naive representation of Aristoteliansyllogisms.> If there were no free will then nobody could choose toassert anything, abandon anything, or speak anything otherthan gibberish.Cannot comment, don't know what ASCII symbols "free will"mean.And we can safely assume that all text that is emittedfrom the email johnkcl...@gmail.com is only accidentallymeaningful, aka gibberish as well, as it's referents wherenot chosen by a conscious act.I think we're safe in assuming that they are emitted by aprocess that is either random or deterministic.It could also be partially random and partially deterministic.Sure. It's hard to even define what might be meant by"completely" random.Algorithmic incompressability (Chaitin, Martin Loef, Solovay ...)make good attempts. This makes sense with Church's thesis. Iguess you know that. Sequences algorithmically incompressiblecontains maximal information, but no way at all to decode it.But those always implicitly assume infinite sequences.Not at all. The interest of algorithmic information theory is thatit defines a notion of finite random sequence (any sequence whoselength is as long as the shortest program to generate it). Thenotion is not constructive and is defined only up to a constant,but it has its purpose). Infinite random sequence are defined byhaving all their finite initial segment non compressible.But isn't any finite sequence tivial compressible - just not all bythe same compression algorithm? When you say a random sequence isdefined by having all its finite initial segments non-compressible,don't you mean not compressible by the same algorithm.

`Not at all. Up to a constant, if a string is not compressible it is`

`not compressible by any algorithm. A constant appears, related to the`

`fact that all universal machine can emulate all other universal`

`machine, and the constant will be related to the length of the`

`interpreter translation. This makes the notion a bit useless for`

`"little string" (compared to that constant), but makes sense for`

`almost all finite strings (all, except a finite number of them). Then`

`it makes sense for the infinite strings. (Of course this makes sense`

`only through Church thesis).`

Bruno

Brent --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.