On 3/20/2013 2:51 PM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>
>
> 2013/3/20 Bruno Marchal <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>
>
> On 19 Mar 2013, at 22:25, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>
>> Since I惴 more in the side of Aquinas/Aristotle -or even Plato
>> sometimes-
>
> ?
> I see Plato and Aristotle as the most opposite view we can have on
> reality.
> (To be sure by Aristotle I means its usual interpretation by the
> followers. Aristotle himself is still close to Plato, at least
> that can be accepted, if only because his treatise on metaphysics
> is quite unclear and hard to interpret).
>
>
>
> Are you a follower of La Rouche? I do not see such opposition
> between Plato and Aristotle . Aristotle believed in essences and
> ideas and in the the inner sense of what is right, just like Plato. he
> was not an empiricist nor a materialist. its phisics is drawn
> both form intuition and observation, not from experiments (and it was
> quite right for the range of the terrestrial phenomena that he studied)
>
>
>
>
>> I don not share the Occam views.Occam was a nominalist, that is
>> rejected the existence of universals, he did not like to think in
>> terms universals, because if universals exist, for example Truth,
>> Love and Peace then they impose some obligations to God: for
>> example, God must do Good, and must not do Evil by definition.
>> Then, why Evil exist?
>>
>> Nominalist did not like to think about these entitities, and
>> wanted an omnipotent God. That was the original meaning of the
>> Occam razor.
>
>
>
>
>
> In the least Occam refer only to the idea that between a simple
> (short) and a complex (long) theory, having the same explanative
> power for the same range of phenomena, we will choose the shorter,
> and this most often (but allowing exception). It is the idea that
> the conceptually simple is better than the ad hoc complex
> construct. In particular we don't introduce as axiom what is a
> theorem.
>
> Probalby what Occam said was purely teological and philosophical.
> Occam AFIK did not told about scientific theories. What we know as the
> Occam Razor is a materialistic version of the philosophical principle
> of "not to multiplicate the (philosophical) entities without need"
>
>>
>> But the secularization of this principle produced the modern
>> concept of materialist science,
>
> I am not sure. materialism violate Occam directly. It is bad
> metaphysics at the start. No one has ever given a way to test the
> existence of primary matter.
>
>
> materialism ios a bad name. The appropriate name is phenomenalism.
> What is know now as "science" is the sole study of the phenomena (as
> if they were no concepts beyond that) . Materialism may be considered
> as a hypostasization of phenomenalism. in such a way that "because
> phenomena are the only thing that I care for, let愀 make them real as
> "things" outside me, and let愀 make the mind and everithing else ,
> inexistent until more phenomena prove otherwise.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> separated from philosophy, via an empiricism science and the
>> negation of the nous of the greek, the common sense and
>> finally the negation of the possibility of objective
>> understanding of anything but some phisical phenomena, and in
>> general the negation of anything that can be not tested by
>> experiments
>
> This is more like Aristotle + a bit of positivism. Positivism has
> been refuted, mainly. But most scientist still believe that
> Aristotelianism is "scientific". They confuse the physical reality
> with the primary physical reality.
>
> I don愒 think so. It is not so historically AFAIK. Positivism is the
> modern form of the different secularizations of nominalism, a
> philosophical movement born to explicitly reject Aristotle and
> Aquinas (who imposed logical limitations what God can and can not
> do) during the middle ages.
>
> Although Plato is more radically opposed than Aristotle to what is
> comonly know as materialism.
>
Dear Albert,
I agree 100% with your comments here!
--
Onward!
Stephen
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