I tried to find FOAR - but failed. You kindly advised to 'show me how' get subscribed, but it was missing from your post. Could you repeat it? John M
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:36 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi John, > > > On 21 Mar 2013, at 21:40, John Mikes wrote: > > Dear Bruno, > it is so fascinating to read about "universal machines". > Is there a place where I could learn in short, understandable terms what > they may be? Then again the difference between a 'Turing machine' and a > 'physical computer' (what I usually call our embryonic Kraxlwerk). > I grew up into my science without computers, got my doctorates in 1948 and > 1967 and faced a computer first on a different continent (USA) in 1980. At > that time I had already ~30 patents and a reputation of a practical > scientist. > So I need more than the 'difference' into the universal. > > Descriptions I saw turned me off. My chemistry-based polymer science does > not give me the base for most (and mostly theoretical!) descriptions. > How'bout common sense base? > > > Actually I quasi-discovered Turing universality by myself when studying > Jacob and Monod 's work on genetic molecular control in bacteria. But I did > not take that very much seriously, until I discovered (in the literature) > the diagonalization technic (Cantor, Kleene) and Church's thesis, which > makes me decide to study math instead of biology. > > May be you could subscribe to the FOAR list, as I will explain all that > there. But if you ask me, I can send it in cc here or provide other > explanations (I think some people are on both list, but this should not be > a problem as it will not be a great number of posts). I dunno. I will see. > > Thanks for telling me your interest, > > Best, > > Bruno > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On 21 Mar 2013, at 02:32, Stephen P. King wrote: >> >> Are physical computers truly "universal Turing Machines"? No! They do not >> have infinite tape, not precise read/write heads. They are subject to noise >> and error. >> >> >> >> The infinite tape is not part of the universal machine. A universal >> machine is a number u such that phi_u(x, y) = phi_x(y). >> >> Please concentrate to the thought experiments, the sum will be taken on >> the memories of those who get the continuations, and the extensions. >> >> When a löbian universal number run out of memory, he asks for more memory >> space or write on the wall of the cave, soon or later. And if it does not >> get it it dies, but from the 1p, it will find itself in a situation >> extending the memory (by just 1p indeterminacy). >> >> >> Universal machines are finite entities. Physical Computer are particular >> case of Turing machine, and can emulate all other possible universal >> number, and the same is true for each of them. All universal machine can >> imitate all universal machines. >> But no universal machines can be universal for the notion of a belief, >> knowledge, observation, feeling, etc. In those matter, they can differ a >> lot. >> >> But they are all finite, and their ability is measured by abstracting >> from the time and space (in the number theoretical or computer theoretical >> sense) needed to accomplish the task. >> >> That they have no precise read/write components, makes them harder to >> recognize among the phi_i, but this is not a problem, given that we know >> that we already cannot know which machine we are, and form the first person >> point of view, we are supported by all the relevant machines and >> computations. >> >> And they are all subject to noise and error, (that follows from >> arithmetic). Those noise and errors are their best allies to build more >> stable realities, I guess. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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