On 21 Mar 2013, at 18:44, Craig Weinberg wrote:



On Thursday, March 21, 2013 1:28:24 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 20 Mar 2013, at 19:16, Craig Weinberg wrote:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130320115111.htm

"We are examining the activity in the cerebral cortex as a whole. The brain is a non-stop, always-active system. When we perceive something, the information does not end up in a specific part of our brain. Rather, it is added to the brain's existing activity. If we measure the electrochemical activity of the whole cortex, we find wave-like patterns. This shows that brain activity is not local but rather that activity constantly moves from one part of the brain to another."



Please, don't confuse the very particular neuro-philosophy with the much weaker assumption of computationalism.
Wave-like pattern are typically computable functions.
(I mentioned this when saying that I would say yes to a doctor only if he copies my glial cells at the right chemical level).

There are just no evidence for non computable activities acting in a relevant way in the biological organism, or actually even in the physical universe. You could point on the the wave packet reduction, but it does not make much sense by itself.

Right, I'm not arguing this as evidence of non-comp. Even if there was non-comp activity in the brain, nothing that we could use to detect it would be able to find anything since we would only know how to use an exrternal detection instrument computationally. Mainly I posted this to show the direction that the scientific evidence is leading us does not support any kind of narrow folk-neuroscience of point to point chain-reactions.


Good.





Not looking very charitable to the bottom-up, neuron machine view.

Ideas don't need charity but in this case it is totally charitable, even with neurophilosophy, given that in your example, those waves still seem neuron driven.

How do you know that it seem neuron driven rather than whole brain driven?

In neurophilosophy, they are used to global complex and distributed brain activity, but still implemented in term of local computable rules obeyed by neurons.




What would it look like if the brain as a whole were driving the neurons?

Either it would be like saying that a high level program can have a feedback on some of its low level implementations, which is not a problem at all, as this already exist, in both biology and computer science, or it would be like saying that a brain can break the physical laws, or the arithmetical laws and it would be like pseudo- philosophy.

Bruno




Craig


Bruno








Craig

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