On 20 Apr 2013, at 21:50, John Mikes wrote:
Brent and Bruno:
Brent I love you for your scientific self-consciousness:
"I'm not so sure of the problem, but I'm pretty sure of the solution."
That's the 'end' of all. Religions like it.
Here is what I see as the (hard problem) problem: people like to
think in the mind-body restriction, as BODY only, considering the
'mind' (?) only as expressions of the body. How about thought, i.e.
ideational thinking - considered practically within measuring only
our already available physical data? where do we get the "blue" mAmp
for logical and the "red" mAmp for emotional disagreement? the
yellow mAmp for "I forgot" and the purple mAmp for "yesterday I was
hungry"? Do we differentiate btw. blood-surges as to pertinent to
musical, or visual enjoyment/(un)aesthetics) - or else?
I would love to learn the solution for such distinctions using
BODILY data.
I have a solution: I dunno.
No machines can know that. But this very fact is already know by
Löbian machine.
Bruno: "...it is just pseudo aristotelian religion."
I like your putting a NAME to my agnostic outburst, not necessarily
all-agreeable for me (I don't like to go 'back' to the oldies).
Are you sure I was quoting you? I don't remember, and this astonishes
me. Oh, I see the quote below. I was quoting J. Clark Aristotelian
prejudice, not your agnosticism, which fit so remarkably with the
universal machine position.
Even 'religion' (what I used a minute ago) is suspect since we have
no proper identification for 'them' in wide ranges (I may call my
'belief' in the infinite complexity as one). So is your comp-basis I
suppose, or Brent's 'connectivity' (=mapping?) between
(tissue?)brain functions and AS (oops: AI, what I miswrote is
Artificial Stupidity). He may be right, of course, if we reduce our
interest to the already knowable 'model' of the world. I don't go
for such reductionism in thinking theoretically.
Nor does machines when they look inward enough.
Best,
Bruno
Regards
John M
On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 5:20 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 20 Apr 2013, at 05:26, meekerdb wrote:
On 4/19/2013 5:31 PM, John Clark wrote:
The reason nobody has a answer to the hard problem is that nobody
has clearly explained exactly what the problem is or what the answer
is expected to do.
I'm not so sure of the problem, but I'm pretty sure of the
solution. When we can build AI robots that exhibit (including
reporting) intelligent and emotional responses similar to humans and
we can map between their AI and the function of brains in a way that
allows us to reliably adjust the behavior of AI robots and/or humans
- then we will have "solved" the problem, in the practical sense
that no one will care about it in general terms but will discuss it
in technical terms the way biologists discuss protein production and
messenger RNA and DNA error correction but no longer discuss "what
is life?".
No this will not work. We must test the physical consequence of the
belief that the brain can be truncated at a finite level. If not, it
is just pseudo aristotelian religion.
Bruno
Brent
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