On 20 Apr 2013, at 21:50, John Mikes wrote:

Brent and Bruno:
Brent I love you for your scientific self-consciousness:
"I'm not so sure of the problem, but I'm pretty sure of the solution."
That's the 'end' of all. Religions like it.

Here is what I see as the (hard problem) problem: people like to think in the mind-body restriction, as BODY only, considering the 'mind' (?) only as expressions of the body. How about thought, i.e. ideational thinking - considered practically within measuring only our already available physical data? where do we get the "blue" mAmp for logical and the "red" mAmp for emotional disagreement? the yellow mAmp for "I forgot" and the purple mAmp for "yesterday I was hungry"? Do we differentiate btw. blood-surges as to pertinent to musical, or visual enjoyment/(un)aesthetics) - or else? I would love to learn the solution for such distinctions using BODILY data.
I have a solution: I dunno.

No machines can know that. But this very fact is already know by Löbian machine.




Bruno:  "...it is just pseudo aristotelian religion."
I like your putting a NAME to my agnostic outburst, not necessarily all-agreeable for me (I don't like to go 'back' to the oldies).

Are you sure I was quoting you? I don't remember, and this astonishes me. Oh, I see the quote below. I was quoting J. Clark Aristotelian prejudice, not your agnosticism, which fit so remarkably with the universal machine position.




Even 'religion' (what I used a minute ago) is suspect since we have no proper identification for 'them' in wide ranges (I may call my 'belief' in the infinite complexity as one). So is your comp-basis I suppose, or Brent's 'connectivity' (=mapping?) between (tissue?)brain functions and AS (oops: AI, what I miswrote is Artificial Stupidity). He may be right, of course, if we reduce our interest to the already knowable 'model' of the world. I don't go for such reductionism in thinking theoretically.

Nor does machines when they look inward enough.

Best,

Bruno





Regards

John M


On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 5:20 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

On 20 Apr 2013, at 05:26, meekerdb wrote:

On 4/19/2013 5:31 PM, John Clark wrote:

The reason nobody has a answer to the hard problem is that nobody has clearly explained exactly what the problem is or what the answer is expected to do.

I'm not so sure of the problem, but I'm pretty sure of the solution. When we can build AI robots that exhibit (including reporting) intelligent and emotional responses similar to humans and we can map between their AI and the function of brains in a way that allows us to reliably adjust the behavior of AI robots and/or humans - then we will have "solved" the problem, in the practical sense that no one will care about it in general terms but will discuss it in technical terms the way biologists discuss protein production and messenger RNA and DNA error correction but no longer discuss "what is life?".

No this will not work. We must test the physical consequence of the belief that the brain can be truncated at a finite level. If not, it is just pseudo aristotelian religion.

Bruno






Brent

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