Yes, exactly. > But then there are no "experiencers"...
I prefer to say that experiencers are their experiences than to say there are no experiencers (I'm explaining my phrasing more than anything) On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:50 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > You mean experiences are purely qualitative, so there cannot be two > identical experiences rather, if identical they must be one (by Leibniz's > identity of indiscernibles) and not two. But then there are no > "experiencers", only sequences of experiences which may have some unifying > property and which may share elements with other sequences. > > Brent > > > On 9/2/2013 8:55 PM, Dennis Ochei wrote: > > "Qualitatively identical experiencers are also numerically identical" is > how i sum this position up > > On Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:39:27 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> On 8/14/2013 7:48 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: >> > Citeren Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au>: >> > >> >> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 05:26:41PM -0700, Pierz wrote: >> >>> I need clarification of the significance of quantum theory to >> determining >> >>> the *past*. I remember having read or heard that the past itself is >> subject >> >>> to quantum uncertainty. Something like the idea that the past is >> determined >> >>> only to to the extent that it is forced to be so by the state of the >> >>> present, if that makes sense. In other words, there may be more than >> one >> >>> history that could lead to the current state of the world. Let's say >> it >> >>> might have been one way or another and then we make a measurement >> which >> >>> resolves this question, we are 'forcing' the past to be one way or >> another. >> >>> In MWI, that would be saying my 'track' through the multiverse is >> ambiguous >> >>> in both directions, both into the future and 'behind me' so to speak. >> I'm >> >>> unclear on this and what it precisely means. I seem to recall that it >> was >> >>> critical in calculations Hawking made about the early universe - at a >> >>> certain point these uncertainties became critical and it meant that >> it was >> >>> no longer possible to say that the universe had definitely been one >> way or >> >>> another. Can someone clarify this for me? >> >>> >> >> >> >> This idea of the past not being determinate until such a time as a >> >> measurement in the present forces the issue is fundamental to my >> >> interpretation of QM. It is also related to the Quantum Eraser. Saibal >> >> Mitra has written some stuff on this too - maybe he'd like to comment? >> >> >> >> On the other hand, I don't think this view is particularly >> >> mainstream. Even many worlds people tend to think that the multiverse >> >> has decohered in the past, and that there is a matter of fact which >> >> branch we are in, even if we're ignorant of that fact. >> >> >> >> I can't comment on Hawking's work, unfortunately, as I'm not aware of >> that. >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> -- >> > >> > >> > Yes, I would agree with the view taken by Russell here. It has >> interesting consequences >> > for any future artificial intelligence who can reset its memory, as I >> explain here: >> > >> > http://arxiv.org/abs/0902.3825 >> > >> > So, if you reset your memory at random with some probability p and you >> also do that in >> > case of an impending disaster, then if you find yourself in a state >> where you know that >> > your memory has been reset and you need to reload your memory, the >> reason why the memory >> > has been reset (routine random memory reset or you were facing an >> impending disaster), >> > is no longer determined, you are identical in the different branches >> until you find out >> > the reason. >> > >> > So, while you are firmly in the classical regime and therefore you >> won't see any changes >> > in the probabilities of the outcomes of these sorts of experiments >> relative to what you >> > would expect classically, the interpretation of how these probabilities >> arise is >> > different; while it is worthwhile to do these memory resettings in a >> "single classical >> > world" it wouldn't be worthwhile. >> > >> > The article I wrote (it was just an essay for FQXI competition which >> got the attention >> > from New Scientist), is actually rather simple, it treats the problem >> in a >> > non-relativistic way, which is a bit unnatural (the times at which >> things happen in the >> > different different branches seems to matter). You can easily >> generalize this, also you >> > can consider thought experiments involving false memories that may be >> correct memories >> > in different branches etc. etc. >> >> Hmm. It seems that "erasing your memory" would encompass a lot more than >> what is commonly >> referred to as memory. Quantum erasure requires erasing all the >> information that is >> diffused into the environment. So erasing one's memory would imply >> quantum erasure of all >> the information about your past - not just the infinitesimal bit that you >> can consciously >> recall. >> >> Brent >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6632 - Release Date: 09/02/13 > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/jtxyZmemH64/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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