On 16 Oct 2013, at 17:41, Richard Ruquist wrote:


Bruno Marchal via googlegroups.com
2:47 AM (8 hours ago)



to everything-list

On 15 Oct 2013, at 19:02, Richard Ruquist wrote:

Bruno: Arithmetical truth escapes largely the computable arithmetical truth (by Gödel).


Richard: I guess I am too much a physicist to believe that uncomputible arithmetical truth can produce the physical.

Nobody is perfect :)
(You are not alone, physicalism is believed by almost everybody those days)


Since you read my paper you know that I think computations in this universe if holographic are limited to 10^120 bits (the Lloyd limit) which is very far from infinity.

Of course, I do not assume such a universe. I assume only that "I" am Turing emulable.



I just do not believe in infinity. In other words, I believe the largest prime number in this universe is less than 10^120. So I will drop out of these discussions. My assumptions differ from yours.

OK. And then the reasoning (UDA), if you do assume some physicalism, is that we are not Turing emulable. You are working in a non comp theory. Not sure this solves anything, as now you can't justify matter (you assume it), and are back to the usual mind-body problem, with an non satisfying identity between mind and matter.

Bruno

Richard: I guess you did not read my paper afterall.

I read it, but as you said, we start from very different assumption, and many things you say about PA seems a bit weird for a logician.



The Metaverse machine is what computes matter and its energy from the get-go. I grant you that I assume such a Metaverse. But the universe with its limited computations are given by known physics.

But that "universe", if it exists, must be justified by using + and * and the numbers only, if comp is assumed.



Regarding MWI vs Wave Collapse , here is some interesting data:


Measurement-induced collapse of quantum wavefunction captured in slow motion.
http://www.nature.com/news/physicists-snatch-a-peep-into-quantum-paradox-1.13899?WT.ec_id=NEWS-20131015


A slow motion movie of the wave collapse is a slow motion movie of a differentiating multiverse. Everett theory predicts such motions.

Bruno




On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

On 15 Oct 2013, at 23:04, Russell Standish wrote:

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 01:02:13PM -0400, Richard Ruquist wrote:
Bruno: Arithmetical truth escapes largely the computable arithmetical truth
(by Gödel).


Richard: I guess I am too much a physicist to believe that uncomputible
arithmetical truth can produce the physical.
Since you read my paper you know that I think computations in this universe if holographic are limited to 10^120 bits (the Lloyd limit) which is very far from infinity. I just do not believe in infinity. In other words, I

believe the largest prime number in this universe is less than 10^120. So I
will drop out of these discussions. My assumptions differ from yours.


Then you might well be interested in the Movie Graph Argument, which
deals directly with the case where the universe doesn't have sufficient
resources to run the universal dovetailer.

Good point.

Bruno





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