On 16 Oct 2013, at 17:41, Richard Ruquist wrote:

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Bruno Marchal via googlegroups.com 2:47 AM (8 hours ago) to everything-list On 15 Oct 2013, at 19:02, Richard Ruquist wrote:Bruno: Arithmetical truth escapes largely the computablearithmetical truth (by Gödel).Richard: I guess I am too much a physicist to believe thatuncomputible arithmetical truth can produce the physical.Nobody is perfect :)(You are not alone, physicalism is believed by almost everybodythose days)Since you read my paper you know that I think computations in thisuniverse if holographic are limited to 10^120 bits (the Lloydlimit) which is very far from infinity.Of course, I do not assume such a universe. I assume only that "I"am Turing emulable.I just do not believe in infinity. In other words, I believe thelargest prime number in this universe is less than 10^120. So Iwill drop out of these discussions. My assumptions differ from yours.OK. And then the reasoning (UDA), if you do assume some physicalism,is that we are not Turing emulable. You are working in a non comptheory. Not sure this solves anything, as now you can't justifymatter (you assume it), and are back to the usual mind-body problem,with an non satisfying identity between mind and matter.Bruno Richard: I guess you did not read my paper afterall.

`I read it, but as you said, we start from very different assumption,`

`and many things you say about PA seems a bit weird for a logician.`

The Metaverse machine is what computes matter and its energy fromthe get-go. I grant you that I assume such a Metaverse. But theuniverse with its limited computations are given by known physics.

`But that "universe", if it exists, must be justified by using + and *`

`and the numbers only, if comp is assumed.`

Regarding MWI vs Wave Collapse , here is some interesting data:Measurement-induced collapse of quantum wavefunction captured inslow motion.http://www.nature.com/news/physicists-snatch-a-peep-into-quantum-paradox-1.13899?WT.ec_id=NEWS-20131015

`A slow motion movie of the wave collapse is a slow motion movie of a`

`differentiating multiverse. Everett theory predicts such motions.`

Bruno

On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>wrote:On 15 Oct 2013, at 23:04, Russell Standish wrote: On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 01:02:13PM -0400, Richard Ruquist wrote:Bruno: Arithmetical truth escapes largely the computablearithmetical truth(by Gödel).Richard: I guess I am too much a physicist to believe thatuncomputiblearithmetical truth can produce the physical.Since you read my paper you know that I think computations in thisuniverseif holographic are limited to 10^120 bits (the Lloyd limit) which isveryfar from infinity. I just do not believe in infinity. In otherwords, Ibelieve the largest prime number in this universe is less than10^120. So Iwill drop out of these discussions. My assumptions differ from yours. Then you might well be interested in the Movie Graph Argument, whichdeals directly with the case where the universe doesn't havesufficientresources to run the universal dovetailer. Good point. Bruno -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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