On 15 Oct 2013, at 19:39, meekerdb wrote:

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On 10/15/2013 7:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:On 15 Oct 2013, at 12:45, Richard Ruquist wrote:Bruno: On the contrary: I assume only that my brain (orgeneralized brain) is computable, then I show that basically allthe rest is not. In everything, or just in arithmetic, thecomputable is rare and exceptional.Richard: Wow. This contradicts everything I have ever though Brunowas claiming. How does anything exist if it is not computed by"the" or "a" machine?We assume the arithmetical truth. In particular we assume that allclosed formula written in the language of arithmetic (and thususing logical symbol + the symbol 0, s (+1), + and *) are alleither true or false, independently of us.From this we cannot prove that matter exists, or not, but we canprove that the average universal numbers will (correctly) believein matter (but it will not know that it is correct).That's not at all clear to me. A universal number encodes proofs -is that what you mean by it believes something?

Yes. (I am thinking about the Löbian universal numbers).

But how is this something identified at 'matter'?

It should follow from the step seven.

So, if you have no problem in believing propositions like "there isno biggest prime number" are true independently of me and you, andthe universe, then you can understand that the propositionasserting the existence of (infinitely many) computations in whichyou believe reading my current post, is also true independently ofus.The appearance of matter emerges from the FPI that the machinescannot avoid in the arithmetical truth.Arithmetical truth escapes largely the computable arithmeticaltruth (by Gödel).And I thought the generalized brain did the computations,Only the computations associated to your mind.not that it was only computed. How does Bruno show that "all therest" which presumably includes energy and matter is not computed.Bruno is constantly confusing me.I guess you missed the step seven of the UDA, and are perhaps notaware that arithmetical truth is incredibly big, *much* bigger thanwhat any computer can generate or compute.Then my, or your, mind is associated to *all* computations goingthrough your actual state of mind,That sounds like an uncomputable totality.

`No, by virtue of the closure of the set of partial (includes the total`

`functions) computable functions for diagonalization, or equivalently,`

`by the existence of universal machines/numbers, that totality is`

`computable/enumerable, and that is why we do have a UD.`

`What happens is that most interesting subset will be uncomputable, so`

`that the FPI entails a priori the non computability of *some* physical`

`things (which can be only the apparent collapse of the wave, but it`

`could be more than that too: open problem).`

Bruno

Brentand below your substitution level there are infinitely many suchcomputations. They all exist in arithmetic, and the FPI glues them,in a non computable way, in possible long and deep physicalhistories.Bruno--You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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