On 17 October 2013 10:52, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 7:23:33 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote:
>> On 17 October 2013 09:56, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 6:23:33 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote:
>> >> On 16 October 2013 23:33, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > http://neurosciencenews.com/human-thought-can-voluntarily-control-neurons-in-brain/
>> >> And what do you think this article shows, Craig? Something about
>> >> "voluntary" meaning "neither determined nor random"?
>> > I think that it means that neurons are subject to our direct intention,
>> > rather than creating the illusion of intention on top of mechanistic
>> > processes. It shows that our own brain, down to the individual neuron
>> > level
>> > can be controlled intuitively, as we would if we had found that we had
>> > grown
>> > a new arm. Just as the brain can cause changes in the body, our personal
>> > motivation can cause changes in the brain.
>> But everything that we think and feel follows from some physical
>> activity in the neurons
> Not at all. What we think and feel leads activity in the neurons also. Right
> now, I can plan to take a walk tomorrow morning, and lo and behold, activity
> in my body will follow activity in the neurons which follow my intention.
> Neuron activity may have no more to do with what we think and feel than
> traffic patterns have in determining the culture of a city.
>> , just like every other biological function.
>> Tachycardia is caused by the heart beating faster, the heart does not
>> beat faster because of tachycardia.
> Tachycardia is the heart beating faster. They mean the same thing. It's like
> saying that drag racing is caused by driving cars fast, but cars are not
> driven fast because they are in a race.
Whichever way you look at it with the heart, the cars or the brain, it
is a sequence of physical events A->B->C etc. Event "B" may correspond
to choosing coffee over tea or it may correspond to tachycardia, but
it was *caused* by event "A". Sometimes, "B" may be random or
uncaused, like radioactive decay. But you have a concept of "B" being
"spontaneous", which means (as far as I can work out) neither caused
by antecedent physical events nor uncaused by antecedent physical
events. And that seems not only wrong, but meaningless.
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