On 11/14/2013 3:30 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 4:19 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
Good one, Chris.

But you can tell from the posts here that what drives the Deniers is fear of
government.  In the U.S. since the Viet Nam war there has developed a
widespread distrust of government as incompetent, corrupt, and oppressive.
Well, it also doesn't help that almost everything that comes out of
the government's mouth turns out to be a lie. They lied about WMDs in
Iraq, they lied about closing down Guantanamo, they lied about
repealing the patriot act (and in fact extended its scope through the
NDAA), they lie about drugs, they lied about the scope of drone use,
they lied about not spying on everybody and they lied about protecting
whisteblowers. Just to name a few. These are all indisputable, direct
lies about very serious matters.

They are not indisputable. For example, Obama promised to close Guantanomo but he was blocked by Congress. One's failure after best effort, to do what is not possible is not exactly a lie. Many things said about recreational drugs, e.g. that heroin is addictive, are certainly true; and those were probably enough to convince the electorate that they should be banned. After all the nation even approved banning alcohol at one time - it's not just that people are misled about consequenses; the people like to impose their ideas of morality on others. It's one of the problems of democracy and the reason for having constitutional rights.

I don't remember the government ever saying what the scope of drone use is. There are obvious tactical and diplomatic reasons for being vague about it.

But I certainly take your point that there is a reason the government is not trusted. However, it is not the government that is warning us about global warming. It is in the scientific research literature. You didn't find lies about drones or drugs or the Patriout act in Physical Review or even in arXiv.

As for oppression we have the humiliation rituals enforced by the TSA,
the militarisation of the police forces, the ongoing attempts at
censoring the Internet, total surveillance, free-speech zones, the
persecution of brilliant benevolent kids like Aaron Schwartz, who
committed suicide because we was going to be thrown into jail for
downloading scientific papers. I am very sad that he had to go through
that, but also happy that the bandits couldn't get their hands on him.

Probably you're going to reply with some apologies for your favourite
team, and claim that it's the other team's fault. I don't care about
any of that. I care about the end result: lies. The Democrats vs.
Republicans reality show is a clever way to explore our tribal

You illustrate my point again. You don't address the science behind global warming predictions or what to do about it. You make a non-sequitur from "The government lies" to "Global warming isn't real." even though the source of global warming predictions is not a government. I can only infer that you are really concerned that if global warming is real, we will have to rely on government level action.


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