Bruno:
 Brent's dichotomy - as you pointed out - about exist and true may go
deeper in my opinion:
If we *THINK *of something: it DOES *exist* indeed *(in our mind)* but may
not be true. I refrain from calling  T R U E  anything in our restsricted
(partial) knowledge capability. "WE THINK IT IS TRUE" is in our belief
system.
Now it is up to you to call the "EXISTING" thought as 'truly existing'????
We fabricate 'truth' in this respect but only in this respect. Otherwise I
am just waiting for additional input disproving what I 'beleived-in' so
far.

John M

PS I read this remark of mine to my wife who asked: if somebody KILLS a
person (cuts her throat):
is it TRUE, or NOT? (pointing to the more convoluted sides of the topic). I
tried to save face by saying:
Don't you apply our 'wisdom-concepts' to practical life! We seek the
theoretical truth! (laugh).
(As a matter of fact 'true' is not confoundable with 'truth' just as
conscious is not the adjective representing  consciousness - in most cases)
JM


On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 4:13 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 21 Nov 2013, at 19:28, meekerdb wrote:
>
>  On 11/21/2013 1:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>
>  Let´s go to a human level:
>
>  in evolutionary terms, I would say that truth is a belief hardcoded by
> natural selection.
>
>
>  This is self-defeating or circular. You need the "truth" of natural
> selection to make sense of it.
>
>
> That seems to confound "truth" and "existence".
>
>
> I don't see why. I was talking on the truth of the evolution facts.
>
>
>
> There are some facts that make the theory of natural selection true (if it
> is true).
>
>
> Yes.
>
>
>
>   Those facts may include hardwired beliefs in human brains and then they
> exist whether there is a theory that expresses them or not.
>
>
> So you say "they exist" is true. What I said is that this is circular when
> used to define truth from evolution.
>
>
>
>
> It's not circular if it is grounded in facts.
>
>
> No. Evolution remains circular as an explanation of truth (it is not
> circular as an explanation of the species, but that's another topic).
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
>
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