On 29-Nov-2013, at 10:34 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> > On 28 Nov 2013, at 15:29, Samiya Illias wrote: > >> Bruno wrote: 'I was of course alluding to the greek (neo)platonists. They >> did invented the God used by both the abramanic cultures (even if terribly >> deformed, notably by the abandon of science about it, and the use of >> authoritative arguments, by Christians, Muslims, and perhaps by the Jewish >> (with Maimonides, to some extent). >> >> It is not because we have found strong evidence that the Earth is NOT flat, >> that Earth has disappeared. We just correct our theory of Earth. Why >> couldn't we do that with the notion of God?' >> ------------ >> >> The God of Abrahamic faiths is the Deity. > > It is preferable to bet so. OK. > > > > >> We believe that He is the only God from time immemorial. > > Hmm.... OK. But he might have "encounter" by Indians, Egyptians, and many > others. > Only God can be God, the rest are not god in the absolute sense of the word. > > >> All prophets preceding Abraham also spoke of the same God. Unfortunately, >> over ages most belief systems degenerate into a pantheon of gods 'in the >> image of humans'. > > As far as I know, they might be intermediate gods and goddesses, and many > things. But the big one is one, OK. > > The problem is that the big ONE has no name, and humans keep invoking it or > even acting in his name, which is blasphemous. The problem is in the idolatry > of text and syntax, and being sleepy on the semantic or meaning. > > That is why we use the term Allah which translates to the Deity. However, God informs us that all beautiful names belong to Him, and introduces Himself variously as the Beneficent, the Merciful, the Mighty, the Seer, the Knower, the Hearer, the Aware, the Loving, the Forgiving, Accepter of Repentance, the Stern in Punishment, the Bountiful, the Able, the Sublime, the Absolute, Lord of the Throne, and so on. > > > >> The God I believe in is the majestic, indescribable, unimaginable, majestic >> Creator and Sustainer of everything. > > Yeah ... I might relate. (I am not entirely sure the term "creator" is a not > a bit misleading, though). > How? > > > >> Unfortunately, instead of focussing on and understanding God's message of >> love and justice, people misunderstand the warnings of not qualifying for >> Heaven and blame / reject a God who warns of Hell as the consequence of >> injustice. > > Injustice and dishonesty leads to catastrophes. But is not the warning of > "God" private? can we really tell this to others, like if few words could > really help, and not confuse. God has given all humans a conscience and a moral compass. Moreover, He has sent prophets and scriptures throughout the ages. I believe that most religions started of as monotheist but morphed into a pantheon when people started adding to religion, for whatever reasons. > > When "hell" becomes a metaphysical or theological punishment, how can someone > do the good, for the good, and not by fear of the bad? > Well, God knows better how to warn. What little I understand from my study of the Quran is that there is a balance of glad tidings and warnings. Moreover, guidance is granted by Allah to those who are willing to be guided. There is no compulsion in religion. We have been given this life (respite) according to a decree that went before that humans will be given a chance to prove themselves, and no injustice will be done to anyone on the Day of Reckoning of humans. > With comp there is something like a non communicable moral law, which asserts > "don't ever do moral", which is non communicable, but still accessible as > true from the first person point of view of the machine. We have to trust > Conscience or God in that matter, somehow. > If you mean conscience and morality is inbuilt and an intrinsic quality, yes I agree. > >> Rejecting God won't make any difference to God or His plan. We need Him and >> His guidance, not the other way round! > > > Nobody rejects God, I think. People rejects this or that representation of > God and the norm and moral often associated with It, which have been imposed > to them by tradition/coercion. That's not a problem, and participates to the > faith. They look behind the names, and wake up from the hypnotic repetition > of sentences and words. I agree, as long as they seek a better explanation instead of rejecting theism. > > But some identifies the unique God and this or that representation, and so > believes that they reject all notions of God, to directly bet on another one > unconsciously, and abandon the honest spiritual inquiry, which requires an > humble doubting third person attitude in those matter. I agree. > That's more grave because that lead to 'authoritative arguments' (the worst) > in both science and religions. It is all good for the bandits and credulity > exploiters. Yes, true. Samiya > > Bruno > > > > >> >> Samiya >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 28-Nov-2013, at 6:52 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: >> >>> I was of course alluding to the greek (neo)platonists. They did invented >>> the God used by both the abramanic cultures (even if terribly deformed, >>> notably by the abandon of science about it, and the use of authoritative >>> arguments, by Christians, Muslims, and perhaps by the Jewish (with >>> Maimonides, to some extent). >>> >>> It is not because we have found strong evidence that the Earth is NOT flat, >>> that Earth has disappeared. We just correct our theory of Earth. Why >>> couldn't we do that with the notion of God? >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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