On 12/16/2013 10:13 PM, Jason Resch wrote:

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:06 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net<mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:On 12/16/2013 10:02 PM, Jason Resch wrote:On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Stephen Paul King <stephe...@provensecure.com <mailto:stephe...@provensecure.com>> wrote: Yes, but why are you being anthropocentric? I thought that was your position, or at least (observer-centric), in that numbers only have properties when observed/checked/computed by some entity somewhere. If there can exist a physical process that is a bisimulation of the computation of the test for primeness, then the primeness is true. Otherwise, we are merely guessing, at best. When we check the primaility of some number N, we may not know whether or not it is prime. However, eventually we run the computation and find out either it was, or it wasn't. My question to you is when was it determined that N was or was not prime? Any time we re-check the calculation we get the same result. Presumably even causally isolated observers will also get the same result. If humans get wiped out and cuttlefish take over the world and build computers, and they check to see if N, is prime is it possible for them to get a different result? My contention is that it is not possible to get a different result, that N was always prime, or it was always not prime, and it would be prime (or not prime) even if we lacked the means or inclination to check it.That's fine. But it's a leap to go from the truth value of 17 is prime, to 17 exists. That's what I mean by mathematicians assuming that "satisfying a predicate" = "exists".All you need are truth values. If it is true that the recursive function containing anemulation of the wave function of the Hubble volume contains a self-aware process knownas Brent which believes he has read an e-mail from Jason, then it is true that theaforementioned Brent believes he has read an e-mail from Jason. We don't need to addsome additional "exists" property on top of it, it adds nothing.

`It does if you don't have an axiomatic definition of all those predicates such that`

`satisfaction of the predicate is provable. Otherwise you're just assuming there's a`

`mathematical description that implies existence. That might be true, but I think it's not`

`knowable that it's true. It's like "the laws of physics".`

Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.