Hi Craig,

First thanks for your thoughtful and detailed comments. A lot of meat there 
and I'll respond to some of them as I think we see the implications of the 
initial agreement somewhat differently.

First, of course there are plenty of differences between the various 
categories of the very varied contents of reality. No one would argue 
otherwise. However most of these are differences in the way the information 
of them is interpreted in our mental models of reality. Both the painting 
and what the painting is of are just computational information of different 
types but our minds interpret them very differently, and of course with 
good reason from the evolutionary POV of our effective functioning in 
reality. After all we can't take sustenance from a painting of a dinner.

On the other hand it is certainly theoretically, and to some extent 
practically, possible to simulate a complete convincing artificial reality 
in a human mind. And in fact that is what our minds are already doing, 
simulating a classical physical reality completely different than the 
actual information reality. But this simulation is really just additional 
computations of information including the information expressing how we 
interact with the external information reality. It's all just information 
computations on a fundamental level, no matter how real we experience it. 
In fact the very realness of our experience is just the information of that 
experience of realness. Our minds have developed this evolutionary mental 
model over millions of years because it enables us to function in reality 
more effectively to model it the way we do.

Next, you state that you view Ontological Energy (OE) as sensory-motive 
experience. No, OE is something that runs the universe, that runs reality, 
whether or not any human is present or not. But of course human experience 
is participation in OE, that is precisely why human experience is real and 
actual, but humans only partake of something universal here. Though in 
another sense all forms can be said to experience each other in their 
interactions, something I call Xperience, which I won't go into here.

Finally all dolls are really real, just as all humans are, but the reality 
of the doll is a doll, and the reality of the human is a human. It is what 
the actual information forms of a thing are that determine the 
characteristics of its reality, but the fact that all are actually real is 
because they exists as information forms in the OE of reality, because 
their computations are running in reality.

Also don't despair as your last paragraph intimates you might. The fact 
that reality is computationally evolving information doesn't detract from 
its awesome beauty and meaningfulness in the least, it enhances it! And 
it's not just gears and numbers,  it's the actual information of all the 
wonderful things that exist in this glorious world in which we exist.

All things are their information only, but that information is wonderful 


On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:48:24 AM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
> All,
> Both Roger and Bruno took issue with my definition of reality to include 
> theories about reality. But the proper definition of reality is that 
> reality includes everything that exists and theories of reality most 
> certainly exist. Roger and Bruno seem to be coming from the old dualistic 
> definition of reality in which some things (generally the 'physical' world) 
> are real and some things aren't real (generally thoughts e.g. about the 
> physical world).
> While this dualistic definition of reality may be useful in daily life it 
> fails on the philosophical level. In truth the entirety of reality is 
> computational and both 'physical' events and mental are both part of that 
> same single computational nexus. Roger gives the example of hitting a table 
> with his fist as something that is real as opposed to a theory about 
> reality which isn't but in fact the reality of the experience of both is 
> electrical signals (information computations) in the brain. They are both 
> computations in the brain.
> The proper definition is that everything that exists is real and therefore 
> part of reality. Everything that exists is a computationally evolving 
> information state in reality and that is why it is real, however its 
> reality is exactly what it actually is, what its computational forms 
> actually are, and this is true for everything including both what our minds 
> interpret as 'physical' events and 'mental'. If you must make that 
> distinction then of course everything without exception in our thoughts and 
> experience is mental, but the deeper truth is that its all computationally 
> evolving information however it's interpreted by our minds.
> Thus the only philosophically consistent definition of reality includes 
> everything that exists without exception, including thoughts and theories.
> But there is a deeper truth here in that reality itself exists 
> independently of its particular contents as a thing in itself. In fact 
> prior to the big bang it was empty of any actualized information at all, 
> but it still existed in a state similar to a generalized quantum vacuum.
> This reality itself is what makes the computations that occur within it 
> real and actual and have being, it is what gives them life. It is what I 
> call 'Ontological Energy' which is simply the (non-physical) space of 
> reality whose presence manifests as the present moment in which we and 
> everything exists. All the computationally evolving information that exists 
> exists like waves, ripples and currents in the sea of existence itself, in 
> the ocean of ontological energy, the logical space or locus of reality and 
> actuality.
> Reality is a single ocean of ontological energy and everything that exists 
> exists as a computationally evolving information form within it. There is 
> nothing outside of it because there is no outside. Therefore there is no 
> possibility of anything being 'not real' or not part of reality. There is 
> only the different categories of reality of different information forms 
> within reality. 
> Edgar

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