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On Dec 28, 2013, at 12:30 PM, "Edgar L. Owen" <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:

Bruno,Not at all. Decoherence falsifies collapse. Decoherence falsifiesmany worlds. With decoherence everything is a wavefunction and thosewave functions just keep on going and interacting in this singleworld.Edgar

`If decoherence falsified MW why do so many physicists still believe in`

`it? What do you see in decoherence that everyone else has missed?`

`Please answer this question for me: Do you have any doubt about your`

`own theories?`

Jason

On Saturday, December 28, 2013 5:48:12 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Dec 2013, at 01:51, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Jason,To address one of your points wavefunctions never collapse they justinteract via the process of decoherence to produce discrete actual(measurable/observable) dimensional relationships between particles.Decoherence is a well verified mathematical theory with predictableresults, and the above is the reasonable interpretation of what itactually does. In spite of what some believe, decoherenceconclusively falsifies the very notion of collapse.OK, but decoherence solve the problem in the Many-World picture.Decoherence does not justify an unique physical universe. Itexplains only why the universe seems unique and quasi-classical, andseems to pick the position observable as important for thoughtprocess and measurement.Bruno Edgar On Friday, December 27, 2013 1:14:01 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote:On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net>wrote:Jason,Neither of the first 2 points you make here seem correct to me butyou don't express them clearly enough for me to know why you aresaying what you are saying.As to the first point, the present moment is self-evident directexperienceDo you think the present moment is the only point in time to exist,to the exclusion of all others? If so, please explain how this isself-evident.whereas wave function collapse is an outlandish interpretation ofquantum equations which has no basis at all in direct experience,I agree with this. But then why isn't it also "outlandish" topresume past moment's in time must cease to exist, just because weare not in them? It seems to be a needless addition to the theory(just like wave function collapse), to keep our concept of what isreal, limited to that which we are aware of from our particularvantage point.To be clear, the collapse theories say that even though theequations of quantum mechanics predict multiple outcomes formeasurements, they suppose that those other possibilities simplydisappear, because we (from our vantage point in one branch) did notexperience those other vantage points in other branches. Hence theypresume only one is reified, to the exclusion of all others. This"us-centered" thinking is how I see presentism. It says that onlyone point in time is reified, to the exclusion of all others.or in quantum theory = the actual equations.If you believe quantum theory is based entirely on the actualequations (e.g. the Schrodinger equation), this leads naturally tomany-worlds. It is only by added additional postulates (such ascollapse) that you can hope to restrict quantum mechanics to asingle world. All attempts at this which I have seen seem ad hoc andcompletely unnecessary.Anyway the theory of decoherence put wave function ... --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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