On 30 Dec 2013, at 10:30, Edgar L. Owen wrote:

Stephen, Jason, Liz,

The answer is very simple when one understands there are two kinds of time. Present moment P-time is the processor cycle of the computations, and the computations compute clock time.

The computations MUST take place in time of some sort to compute anything. The fact that there is a logical sequence that isn't moving gives us nothing.

You are right: you don't get anything with only

0, s(0), s(s(0)), ...

But you get the subjective time and possible relatively objective 3p time from the sequence above, once you agree with the laws of numbers: explicitly:


x + 0 = x
x + s(y) = s(x + y)

 x *0 = 0
 x*s(y) = x*y + x

Arithmetic contains all diophantine approximation of all ... soccer cups, and things like that, like the collison between the Milky Way and Andromeda. But the 1p (consciousness) emerges "really" only in the limiting glue of the diophantine solutions, and those might not be solution of any particular diophantine equation.

Bruno



All comps, including Bruno's, must face this problem which Liz properly raises....

OK, I'm ducking, but nevertheless it's the only reasonable explanation!
:-)

Edgar

On Monday, December 30, 2013 12:43:34 AM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote:
Dear Jason,

You seem to be ignoring the role of the transitory that is involved in the discussion here. The fact is that we are asking questions about things we are trying to understand. Merely stating that this is that ignores the point. Where doth change emerge if it does not exist at all? This is my problem with Platonia, it has no explanation for the appearance of change. We can point at this or that (figuratively speaking) as an explanation, but the finger that points does not vanish upon alighting on the answer.


On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Jason Resch <jason...@gmail.com> wrote:



On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 12:20 AM, Stephen Paul King <step...@provensecure.com> wrote:
Hi Jason,

  So what is turning the "knob" on the values of y (or x)?

Nothing, the whole graph exists at once, but y varies as x varies. Why does x=1,y=9 have to be destroyed to make room for x=2,y=11? What does destroying the previous state add to x=2,y=11 that wasn't there before?

Now consider we aren't dealing with a simple line, but an equation tracing the interactions of all the particle interactions in your brain. If x=1 corresponds to your consciousness in time 1, and x=2 corresponds to your consciousness in time 2, then how would destroying the x=1 state change your conscious state for x=2?

Jason



On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Jason Resch <jason...@gmail.com> wrote:



On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 9:40 PM, Stephen Paul King <step...@provensecure.com> wrote:
Dear Brent,

I have a persisting question. How is is that we can get away with using verbs (implying actions) when we are describing timeless entities?


In the same way we can say that y increases as x increases, in the graph of y = 2x + 7

Jason


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