On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jason, > > Because it's not the computations themselves, but the fact they occur in > the Present Time locus of reality that makes them real that is relevant... > > So your answer is that they can't be real computations unless they occur in the present moment? This seems somewhat circular. Jason > > > On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 1:01:43 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Jason, >>> >>> Not quite. The CONTENTS of conscious are the results of computations. >>> The FACT of consciousness itself, that the computations are conscious, is >>> due to the self-manifesting nature of reality as explained in the other >>> post. >>> >>> The rest of your questions don't follow. The fact that reality is real >>> and actually exists means it must be present. That presence of reality >>> self-manifests as the shared common present moment we all experience our >>> existence within, which is the shared locus of reality, and that present >>> moment is the only locus of reality. Therefore no block time, no MW, etc. >>> >>> >> If the contents of conscious are the results of computations, and the >> course of the computations is identical under presentism or block time, >> then shouldn't the contents of the consciousness be the same whether >> presentism or block time is true? I don't follow why you say that doesn't >> follow. Could you elaborate? >> >> >> Jason >> >> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 11:06:51 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 31, 2013, at 8:28 AM, "Edgar L. Owen" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Jason, >>>> >>>> Thanks for asking. I'll start a new topic on Consciousness hopefully >>>> sometime today as it is clearly an important topic on its own..... >>>> >>>> Edgar >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, December 31, 2013 12:13:26 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Jason Resch <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you think a computer can be conscious? >>>>>> >>>>>> If yes, then do you think the experience of the consciousness within >>>>>> the computer would be different if the computer existed in a block-time >>>>>> universes instead of a moving-present universe? If so, how/what would >>>>>> cause the states of the evolving computer program to take a different >>>>>> course in the block universe vs. the moving present universe? If you see >>>>>> no reason the computations should diverge, then you must agree the states >>>>>> reached by the computer program are the same, and since they are the same >>>>>> the conscious program could not behave any differently. This includes >>>>>> any >>>>>> realization that it is in a block-time vs. a moving-present universe. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Edgar, >>>>> >>>>> I am particularly curious to hear what you think of the above >>>>> reasoning. It seems that it applies to your theory which I believe at some >>>>> level holds that the right computations can produce consciousness. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Edgar, >>>> >>>> Thanks for your reply in the other thread. I see you answer that >>>> consciousness is the result of a computation. >>>> >>>> If a conscious computation believes and feels like it is in a single >>>> moving present moment, do you agree it will feel this way so long as the >>>> same computation is performed, regardless of the hardware that executed it? >>>> >>>> If so, shouldn't it follow that whether the computation exists in a >>>> moving present or in a block universe, that the conscious computation will >>>> still feel and believe it exists in a single present moment? >>>> >>>> I don't see how any theory that uses the computational theory of mind >>>> can escape this conclusion. As a consequence of it, we cannot use our >>>> feeling of existing in a single present as any kind of true indicator for >>>> what the reality of the matter is. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> >>>> Visit this group at <http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>>> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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