On 01 Jan 2014, at 00:05, meekerdb wrote:

On 12/31/2013 9:54 AM, Jason Resch wrote:On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 12:12 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>wrote:On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>wrote:> There are at least two possible answers to the bell inequalities: 1. Nonlocal influencesThere are not "at least two" there are exactly two, but yes,things might not be local.>2. Mutliple outcomes for each measurementYes, things might not be realistic. We know that at best one ofthose 2 commonplace assumptions is wrong, at worse both are.> If you choose 2, then you don't need 1. Yes, but locality OR realism OR both must be wrong.>> But MWI could be true because although it is realistic it is notlocal.> It is local,I sorta like the MWI but apparently you are not a fan because ifwhat you say is true then the MWI is dead wrong.Explain why the following table shows that MWI is local, andrealistic on the wave function and universal wave function:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics#Comparison_of_interpretationsThe Wikipedia reference:Locality in the Everett Interpretation of Heisenberg-Picture QuantumMechanicsMark A. Rubin(Submitted on 14 Mar 2001 (v1), last revised 10 May 2001 (thisversion, v2))Bell's theorem depends crucially on counterfactual reasoning, and ismistakenly interpreted as ruling out a local explanation for thecorrelations which can be observed between the results ofmeasurements performed on spatially-separated quantum systems. Butin fact the Everett interpretation of quantum mechanics, in theHeisenberg picture, provides an alternative local explanation forsuch correlations. Measurement-type interactions lead, not to manyworlds but, rather, to many local copies of experimental systems andthe observers who measure their properties. Transformations of theHeisenberg-picture operators corresponding to the properties ofthese systems and observers, induced by measurement interactions,"label" each copy and provide the mechanism which, e.g., ensuresthat each copy of one of the observers in an EPRB or GHZM experimentwill only interact with the "correct" copy of the other observer(s).The conceptual problem of nonlocality is thus replaced with aconceptual problem of proliferating labels, as correlated systemsand observers undergo measurement-type interactions with newly-encountered objects and instruments; it is suggested that thisproblem may be resolved by considering quantum field theory ratherthan the quantum mechanics of particles.Comments: 18 pages, no figures. Minor changes Subjects: Quantum Physics (quant-ph) Journal reference: Found. Phys. Lett. 14 (2001) 301-322 Report number: WW-10184 Cite as: arXiv:quant-ph/0103079 just moves the problem from FTL signaling to FTL labeling.

`It just show that in the MW, everything is local. The "label"`

`denomination is just a bit ridiculous, as the information spread in`

`the local universe, and this is a MWI differentiation/mulitiplication.`

`Quantum field will not make those parallel -branches disappear. Nice`

`article which makes well the local point (just looking at it quickly,`

`a first january!).`

Bruno

JasonWe already know MWI is realistic and ANY theory that is bothrealistic AND local can NOT be consistent with experiment. And ifexperiment says that's not the way things are then that's just notthe way things are.> You can have multiple outcomes for a measurement and realism.No you can not because that's not what physicists mean when theyuse the word "realistic", they mean that a wave or a particlepossesses one specific attribute even if it has not been measured.That is hidden variable. There cannot be a single hidden value butthere can be multiple real values. Hidden variables are somethingdifferent from realism, which is a reality independent ofmeasurement or observation.Perhaps that is the only thing we are arguing over. Definitions.What you say seems correct to me if what you call reality is thingspossess "single-valued hidden variables".For example, if a photon already has one specific polarizationeven before its quantum entangled twin has been measured then it isrealistic.It has many specific polarizations before it is measured. > Locality has a specific definition in physics, Yes.> that things are only affected by other things (fields orparticles) in direct proximity to each other.Once a universe has split off it can have no effect on uswhatsoever nor us to it. And someplace that the laws of physicsforbid us from going to or seeing is not in our "direct proximity".The whole universe doesn't split off, rather superpositions spreadfrom particle to particle at sub-light speeds.See the answer to Question 12: http://www.anthropic-principle.com/preprints/manyworlds.htmlThis is a non-answer. The wave-equation lives in Hilbert space, notspacetime. So a single point in the Hilbert space of a pair ofparticles has six space coordinate variables.Brent> It says nothing about the existence of places we can or can't goto.It most certainly does! If a event is not even in our past orfuture spacetime lightcone then it is not local, and no event inanother universe is within our lightcone.By this definition, the existence of light cones or things outsidewould make special relativity non-local, but it is not. A theoryis only non-local if something outside your past light cone couldaffect you, or if you could affect things outside your future lightcone. This is not the case in special relativity, and it's not thecase in Everett's theory.Jason John K Clark It says nothing about the existence of places we can or can't go to. Jason John K Clark --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.--You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

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