On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 12:12 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > There are at least two possible answers to the bell inequalities: >> 1. Nonlocal influences >> > > There are not "at least two" there are exactly two, but yes, things might > not be local. > > >2. Mutliple outcomes for each measurement >> > > Yes, things might not be realistic. We know that at best one of those 2 > commonplace assumptions is wrong, at worse both are. > > > If you choose 2, then you don't need 1. >> > > Yes, but locality OR realism OR both must be wrong. > > >> But MWI could be true because although it is realistic it is not >>> local. >>> >> >> > It is local, >> > > I sorta like the MWI but apparently you are not a fan because if what you > say is true then the MWI is dead wrong. > Explain why the following table shows that MWI is local, and realistic on the wave function and universal wave function: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics#Comparison_of_interpretations Jason > We already know MWI is realistic and ANY theory that is both realistic AND > local can NOT be consistent with experiment. And if experiment says that's > not the way things are then that's just not the way things are. > > > You can have multiple outcomes for a measurement and realism. >> > > No you can not because that's not what physicists mean when they use the > word "realistic", they mean that a wave or a particle possesses one > specific attribute even if it has not been measured. > That is hidden variable. There cannot be a single hidden value but there can be multiple real values. Hidden variables are something different from realism, which is a reality independent of measurement or observation. Perhaps that is the only thing we are arguing over. Definitions. What you say seems correct to me if what you call reality is things possess "single-valued hidden variables". > For example, if a photon already has one specific polarization even > before its quantum entangled twin has been measured then it is realistic. > > It has many specific polarizations before it is measured. > > Locality has a specific definition in physics, >> > > Yes. > > > that things are only affected by other things (fields or particles) in >> direct proximity to each other. >> > > Once a universe has split off it can have no effect on us whatsoever nor > us to it. And someplace that the laws of physics forbid us from going to or > seeing is not in our "direct proximity". > The whole universe doesn't split off, rather superpositions spread from particle to particle at sub-light speeds. See the answer to Question 12: http://www.anthropic-principle.com/preprints/manyworlds.html > > > It says nothing about the existence of places we can or can't go to. >> > > It most certainly does! If a event is not even in our past or future > spacetime lightcone then it is not local, and no event in another universe > is within our lightcone. > By this definition, the existence of light cones or things outside would make special relativity non-local, but it is not. A theory is only non-local if something outside your past light cone could affect you, or if you could affect things outside your future light cone. This is not the case in special relativity, and it's not the case in Everett's theory. Jason > > John K Clark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It says nothing about the existence of places we can or can't go to. > > Jason > > > John K Clark > > > > > > > > > > > > -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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