On 11 January 2014 17:33, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

>  On 1/10/2014 7:33 PM, LizR wrote:
>  On 11 January 2014 16:02, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>  On 1/10/2014 4:06 PM, LizR wrote:
>>  On 11 January 2014 12:54, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>  On 1/10/2014 1:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>>> Second, a reality can exist without being computed. the best and simple
>>> example is arithmetic. Only a very tiny part of it is computable (this is
>>> provable if you accept the Church Turing thesis).
>>>  But it's questionable whether it "exists".
>>  Does it kick back? Could two beings in different universes, with
>> different laws of physics (if such exist) discover it independently?
>>  Of course "discover" begs the question.
>  No it doesn't. It *is* the question. I used "discover" in the sense of
> making a discovery, as opposed to inventing something.
> That's what "begs the question" means, the form of your question
> implicitly assumes the answer you presuppose.  "Discover" implies existence
> independent of invention.  But that's the point I'm questioning.  When we
> count are we discovering 1,2,3,... or are we inventing the concept of
> several things consitituting a numberable set.


Are you being deliberately aggravating? I ASKED if we discover maths, and
you've come out with all this nonsense saying I'm "begging the question".
But begging the question means assuming the answer to a question, which
isn't what I did. I asked a question.

You may have said something sensible below, but while you appear to be
trolling over this I'm not in a mood to read it,

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