On 12 Jan 2014, at 06:21, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:

On 12 January 2014 15:12, Colin Geoffrey Hales <cgha...@unimelb.edu.au> wrote:
RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014

Consciousness as a State of Matter

Max Tegmark, January 8, 2014

Hi Folk,


I confess that after 12 years of deep immersion in science’s grapplings with consciousness, the blindspot I see operating is so obvious and so pervasive and so incredibly unseen it beggars belief. I know it’s a long way from physics to neuroscience (discipline-wise). But surely in 2014 we can see it
for what it is. Can’t they (Tegmark and ilk)  see that the so-called
“science of consciousness” is

·         the “the science of the scientific observer”

·         trying to explain observing with observations

·         trying to explain experience with experiences

·         trying to explain how scientists do science.

·         a science of scientific behaviour.

·         Descriptive and never explanatory.

· Assuming that the use of consciousness to confirm ‘laws of nature’
contacts the actual underlying reality...

· Assuming there’s only 1 scientific behaviour and never ever ever
questioning that.

· Assuming scientists are not scientific evidence of anything.

·         Assuming that objectivity, in objectifying something out of
subjectivity, doesn’t evidence the subjectivity at the heart of it.

·         Confusing scientific evidence as being an identity with
objectified phenomena.

2500 years of blinkered paradigmatic tacit presupposition....now gives us exactly what happened for phlogiston during the 1600s. A new ‘state of matter’? Bah! Phlogiston!!! Of course not! All we have to do is admit we are actually inside the universe, made of whatever it is made of, getting a view from the point of view of being a bit of it...... grrrrrrrr. The big mistake is that thinking that physics has ever, in the history of science, ever ever ever dealt with what the universe is actually made of, as opposed to merely describing what a presupposed observer ‘sees it looking like’. The next biggest mistake is assuming that we can’t deal with what the universe
is actually made of, when that very stuff is delivering an ability to
scientifically observe in the first place.

These sorts of expositions have failed before the authors have even lifted a finger over the keyboard. Those involved don’t even know what the problem is. The problem is not one _for_ science. The problem is _science itself_
... _us_.

Sorry. I just get very very frustrated at times. I have written a book on this and hopefully it’ll be out within 6 months. That’ll sort them out.

Happy new year!

I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am

I think this is misleading. Are you really a dumb of matter? I think that your body can be a lump of dumb matter, but that *you* are a person, using that dumb of matter as a vehicle and mean to manifest yourself. In principle (assuming comp of course), you can change your body every morning (and as you have often explain your self, we do change our "lump of dumb matter" every n number of years.

so I don't see why another lump of dumb matter arranged in
a special way might not also be conscious.

But here I agree with your point, although it is less misleading to consider the person as some immaterial entity (like a game, a program, memories, personality traits, ... no need of magical soul with wings) owning your body. If the human would born directly fixed inside a car, they would also believe that their car is part of their body. Nature provides us with a body at birth, and that might be the reason why we tend to identify ourselves with our bodies, but comp, which I think you accept, shows the limit of this identification, imo. Eventually, the UDA shows that at a very fundamental level, bodies are only statistical machine's percepts, or statistical relative numbers percepts.

What is it about that idea
that you see as not only wrong, but ridiculous?

It is not what I am saying here, to be sure.



You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

Reply via email to