On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 5:21 AM, Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected]> wrote: > On 12 January 2014 15:12, Colin Geoffrey Hales <[email protected]> wrote: >> RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014 >> >> Consciousness as a State of Matter >> >> Max Tegmark, January 8, 2014 >> >> >> >> Hi Folk, >> >> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! >> >> I confess that after 12 years of deep immersion in science’s grapplings with >> consciousness, the blindspot I see operating is so obvious and so pervasive >> and so incredibly unseen it beggars belief. I know it’s a long way from >> physics to neuroscience (discipline-wise). But surely in 2014 we can see it >> for what it is. Can’t they (Tegmark and ilk) see that the so-called >> “science of consciousness” is >> >> · the “the science of the scientific observer” >> >> · trying to explain observing with observations >> >> · trying to explain experience with experiences >> >> · trying to explain how scientists do science. >> >> · a science of scientific behaviour. >> >> · Descriptive and never explanatory. >> >> · Assuming that the use of consciousness to confirm ‘laws of nature’ >> contacts the actual underlying reality... >> >> · Assuming there’s only 1 scientific behaviour and never ever ever >> questioning that. >> >> · Assuming scientists are not scientific evidence of anything. >> >> · Assuming that objectivity, in objectifying something out of >> subjectivity, doesn’t evidence the subjectivity at the heart of it. >> >> · Confusing scientific evidence as being an identity with >> objectified phenomena. >> >> >> >> 2500 years of blinkered paradigmatic tacit presupposition....now gives us >> exactly what happened for phlogiston during the 1600s. A new ‘state of >> matter’? Bah! Phlogiston!!! Of course not! All we have to do is admit we >> are actually inside the universe, made of whatever it is made of, getting a >> view from the point of view of being a bit of it...... grrrrrrrr. The big >> mistake is that thinking that physics has ever, in the history of science, >> ever ever ever dealt with what the universe is actually made of, as opposed >> to merely describing what a presupposed observer ‘sees it looking like’. The >> next biggest mistake is assuming that we can’t deal with what the universe >> is actually made of, when that very stuff is delivering an ability to >> scientifically observe in the first place. >> >> >> >> These sorts of expositions have failed before the authors have even lifted a >> finger over the keyboard. Those involved don’t even know what the problem >> is. The problem is not one _for_ science. The problem is _science itself_ >> ... _us_. >> >> >> >> Sorry. I just get very very frustrated at times. I have written a book on >> this and hopefully it’ll be out within 6 months. That’ll sort them out. >> >> >> >> Happy new year! > > I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am > conscious, so I don't see why another lump of dumb matter arranged in > a special way might not also be conscious. What is it about that idea > that you see as not only wrong, but ridiculous?
I'm sorry I repeat this answer so many times, but this claim is also made so many times. The main problem I see with this idea is that no progress has been made so far in explaining how a lump of matter becomes conscious, as opposed to just being a zombie mechanically performing complex behaviors. Insisting that such an explanation must exist instead of entertaining other models of reality strikes me as a form of mysticism. Telmo. > > -- > Stathis Papaioannou > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
