On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net> wrote:
> Jason, > > 1. First I demonstrated that SR falsifies block time (by requiring a > moving arrow of time and a present moment), so since SR is well verified > block time is false. > That things move does not disprove block time. All movement is is being in different places at different times, which is perfectly valid and consistent with the block-time view. So I don't see what makes it any different if everything moves at some fixed speed. Also, the "arrow of time" has a different meaning in science than in the sense you seem to be using it. It refers to the general process of entropy increase which serves as a "pointer" in the same direction through space time in which we accumulate memories, it is not refer to any particular direction in which things travel through space time. Everything with a non-zero velocity has a different direction through time than you do. Some say anti-matter is even traveling in the opposite direction. > > 2. I asked you around a dozen questions each homing in on another problem > with block time. I received no convincing answers to any of them that I > recall. Basically you just told me they weren't really problems without > giving any reasons why not. > I provided reasons, as I did above. On the other hand, I asked you a number of questions, such as how you can know there is only a single present moment, rather than 2, or 10, or 100, etc. but got no answer at all. > > 3. Then I asked you to clarify a couple of aspects of the structure of > block time (e.g. is it a continuum or sequential frames) which you were > unable to provide. > I don't recall being asked this question, but in any case I don't know, it seems the jury is still out on whether or not space-time is quantized. > > Please understand I'm not singling you out here. The problem is not so > much with your explanations as with the theory itself which is just not > tenable and which of course you are not responsible for.... > If anything, presentism is not tenable under relativity. See "Time and Physical Geometry" but Putnam ( http://philoscience.unibe.ch/documents/kursarchiv/SS04/PutnamJPhil.pdf ) or "Is there an alternative to the block view" ( http://philoscience.unibe.ch/documents/kursarchiv/SS04/PutnamJPhil.pdf ) by Petkov, or "How Relativity contradicts Presentism" ( http://users.ox.ac.uk/~lina0174/kansas.pdf ) by Saunders. I have given you several of these sources before, but you will not read them, so I don't know what more you expect me to do when you say I give you no explanation or reason. Please surprise me and read at least one of those papers. Jason > > Edgar > > On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 10:56:56 AM UTC-5, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Jan 15, 2014, at 6:36 AM, "Edgar L. Owen" <edga...@att.net> wrote: >> >> Bruno, >> >> Thanks for the correction. >> >> But it's still just as bad to claim all arithmetic just sits there in >> 'Platonia'. You still don't address the problem of how anything happens, >> and how the universe gets computed. I know you claim that somehow movement >> is an illusion of perspective from inside the system which sounds like the >> nonsensical 'block time' universe, which no matter how many protest, is >> riddled with contradictions and lacunas.... >> >> >> I don't recall you pointing out a single critique of block time for which >> I or someone else did not offer a reasonable answer to. >> >> Jason >> >> >> >> Edgar >> >> >> On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 3:04:30 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 14 Jan 2014, at 18:48, Edgar L. Owen wrote: >> >> Liz, >> >> Correct. Most reality math is likely fairly simple and fairly limited. >> That's why Bruno's 'comp' that assumes all math exists out there somewhere >> is so extraordinarily wrong and excessive and non-parsimonious. >> >> >> I will stop comment, if you repeat false allegation already corrected in >> previous posts. >> I do not assume all math exists out there. Only arithmetic. "all math" is >> an expression having no precise meaning. It means nothing, actually. >> >> Now, if you believe that "29 is prime" does depend on you, show me the >> functional relation between "29 is prime" and "you", with "you" defined >> without using the notion of numbers. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> As for the grid cells on the GR rubber sheet model just imagine a >> mass-energy content in one cell dilating it. That automatically produces a >> curvature in the rubber sheet around that mass-energy consistent with the >> effects of space curvature in GR. >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, January 14, 2014 12:52:24 AM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: >> >> On 14 January 2014 16:49, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote: >> >> Liz, >> >> Sure, the particle property conservation laws that conserve the amounts >> of particle properties in elementary particle interactions, and the laws >> that govern the binding of elementary particles in matter. These are the >> fundamental computations that determine most of the structure of the >> universe.... >> >> >> OK, but I would imagine most conservations laws don't require much >> computation - aren't they more akin to storing (i.e. conserving) data? >> >> >> How and where is the code stored? There is no 'where' in a >> non-dimensional computational space. How it is stored I intimated in an >> earlier response of an hour or so ago. It's stored as combinations of code >> and data in the actual process of evolving computationally. >> >> >> I don't understand what you mean by the code and data are stored "in the >> process of evolving computationally" >> >> >> How do the computations decide what data they will interact with? The >> computations include the data they compute in one information structure as >> explained above. >> >> >> Where does that data come from? Is there any interaction between adjacent >> computations? (Are there such things as adjacent computations? If there >> isn't, how does locality emerge?) >> >> >> What grid cells? Aren't you familiar with the standard rubber sheet model >> of GR? The rubber sheet has grid cells drawn on it. >> >> The grid cells drawn in embedding diagrams are there to show the metrical >> properties of space-time, while the computations you're talking about are, >> I believe, what *generates* space-time. I don't (as yet) see an obvious >> connection between the two. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at <http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list> >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit <https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/>http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To uns >> >> ... > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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