Bruno, as I recall my recollection of Colin was an oldie one from his
young-age ideas. Many many years ago.

John


On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 14 Jan 2014, at 23:09, John Mikes wrote:
>
> Brent:
>
> thanks for submitting Colin Hales' words!
>  I lost track of him lately  in the West-Australian deserts (from where he
> seemed to move to become focussed on being accepted for scientific title(s)
> by establishment-scientist potentates - what I never believed of him
> indeed).
> I loved (and tried to digest to some extent) his earlier 'words' - making
> them fundamental to my developing agnosticism.
>
> Brent, to your short closing remark:
> I do not equate 'being conscious' with the domain-adjective of
> consciousness - it may be a certain aspect showing within the domain,
> pertinent to 'those lumps of matter' you mention. I aso value "structure"
> more than just material functioning.  And I wish I had such (your?)
> alternative hypotheses... not only my agnosticism about it.
>
> I agree with most of Colin's un-numbered points on the figment he called
> "science of consciousness". What I would have added is a date of yesterday
> (and to support it - as I usually do - compare that level to earlier
> (millennia?) similar concoctions)
> .
> And - would have parethesized the territory named 'science' in them all.
>
> Well: what  *- IS -*  the *LAW OF NATURE *as widely believed? It is the
> majority of results of observed (poorly understood?) phenomena within the
> portion of Everything we so far got access to - and that, too, in our
> mind's adjustment at its actual level (inventory).
> (Wording mostly based on Colin's earlier writings)
> It depends on the boundaries *WE CHOSE. *Consider different boundaries
> and the LAW will change immediately, even within our unchanged ignorance of
> the totality.
>
>
> From what I understand, Colin's try to introduce in the exact sciences the
> lack of rigor of the human sciences. I believe in the contrary: we must
> come back to rigor in the human and fundamental science.
> I don't see at all how Colin's approach can be consistent with the
> correct-machine, and human, fundamental agnosticism.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
> Thank you, Colins (and Brent)
>
> John Mikes
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 4:44 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>  On 1/12/2014 9:42 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
>>
>> I'm sorry I repeat this answer so many times, but this claim is also
>> made so many times. The main problem I see with this idea is that no
>> progress has been made so far in explaining how a lump of matter
>> becomes conscious, as opposed to just being a zombie mechanically
>> performing complex behaviors. Insisting that such an explanation must
>> exist instead of entertaining other models of reality strikes me as a
>> form of mysticism.
>>
>>
>> Well we know that one lump of matter is conscious and we think some
>> others that are structually similar are and that some others are not.  A
>> plausible hypothesis is that the consciousness is a consequence of the
>> structure.  Alternative hypotheses would have to explain this coincidence.
>>
>> Brent
>>
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