On 16 Jan 2014, at 15:18, Stephen Paul King wrote:

Dear Bruno,

  Let me first say that I share your opinion of physicalism!

My point is that it is the only opinion available to any self- referentially correct machines (believing in rationality and some amount of occam (the amount needed to disbelieve in fairy tales).



As to the empirical evidence of inorganic minds. What behavior should we look for?

By comp, the behavior (indeed even the subjective experience) is the same for organic and inorganic mind.



I ask this with all seriousness, as I have been researching methods to detect AGI (another way to denote inorganic minds) and have found that there are, IMHO, very good arguments (particularly by Goetzel) that have been made that show that we should not expect AGI to interact via "natural languages" and will not have models of the world that can be mapped via simple bijections to our models of the world. Basically, their "physics" are expected to be very different.

That does not make sense to me. The AGI might have different qualia, but if it does get the right comp quanta, then the AGI will conclude that he/it/she is not a machine, which is absurd, or that comp is wrong, and then it is a zombie!

Bruno







On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

On 16 Jan 2014, at 04:02, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote:

http://www.edge.org/response-detail/25377

Neil Gershenfeld
Physicist, Director, MIT's Center for Bits and Atoms; Author, FAB

Totally agree: He blames Turing and von Neumann

So do I.

He assumes both comp and weak materialism. In fact some digital physics. This has been shown many time here to not work at all. I can repeat the argument, but it is very easy from the UDA.
Physicalism is ready for retirement, if comp is true.



We stopped doing real empirical work on the inorganic brain 60 years ago. We failed for 60 years to make an inorganic brain.

Computer “Science” was never and never will be an empirical science at all. It is 100% the experimental exploration of theoretical models .... and has been generationally systemically confused with empirical science.


I think on the contrary that computer science gives a precise criteria how to use the empirical experimentation to refute precise theory of the mind.

You assume that an inorganic brain might one day function, but that would mean that comp, or string AI, is possible, and then I don't see how you could avoid the consequences.


Party’s over.

You talk here a bit like Edgar or other "knower of the Truth".

We are just searching, using theories (= hypothesis), as only them put light on how to interpret the experimental data.

Bruno




Cheers
Colin


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