On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Edgar L. Owen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jesse, > > No, I've mentioned that on a number of occasions. And yes, Omega should > give us a p-time radius if we can actually figure out how to use it to > calculate the radius of a simply hypersphere (if it is actually the > curvature of a standard hypersphere which I'm beginning to doubt) > Omega is not a measure of curvature, it's a measure of density (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedmann_equations#Density_parameter ), and it assumes the standard FRLW model where the density is perfectly uniform at each moment of coordinate time. But in the FRLW model of a closed universe, I believe the radius of the hypersphere as a function of coordinate time can be calculated from Omega as a function of coordinate time. > > But next you are putting words in my mouth. I do NOT say that determining > which events are simultaneous in p-time is fundamentally impossible for any > being within the universe". That's a basic misunderstanding of my model. > > I say quite the opposite, that there is a common universal present moment > of p-time that all observers in the universe exist within, > I understand that you say this, but to say there is an objective truth about p-time doesn't necessarily mean there is any empirical way to determine which pairs of events actually happened at the same p-time. > because the present moment of p-time is the only locus of actual reality, > and this is individually confirmed by direct observation by all observers. > WHAT "direct observations" can determine whether two events at totally different locations in space happened at the same moment of p-time or different moments of p-time? If you think that this can be determined observationally, please give a detailed procedure that could be applied to, say, the question of whether two different bomb explosions at different distances from a black hole happened at the same p-time or different p-times. > I also say that once that is established for each individual observer, > then it is easy to demonstrate that that same present moment is common to > all observers. > I'm not just asking for a metaphysical demonstration that there must be such a common present moment, but a way to actually determine whether a pair of events at different locations actually shared the same absolute present moment at the time they happened. > > So there is no issue of determining which events are simultaneous in > p-time because all events that are actually occurring occur only in the > present moment of p-time. > I'm not asking about events that are "actually occurring", I'm asking *retrospectively*, if we have a record of two events that occurred in the past, is there any way to determine whether those two events shared the same p-time at the moment they happened. > > As for establishing the 'simultaneity' of past moments of p-time they > don't really have a metric associated with them though you keep trying to > tell me that coordinate time might provide one, but I don't see that yet. > A metric is a way of relating coordinate times to proper times for timelike paths (and coordinate distances to proper lengths of spacelike paths), I don't see what it has to do with establishing simultaneity of past moments of p-time (I don't recall ever saying that coordinate time would provide a definition of p-time, if you think I did you must have misunderstood me). Forget technical ideas like metrics for the moment, please just tell me if you'd agree that for any pair of events that happened in the past, it must be either TRUE or FALSE that they shared the same p-time at the moment they happened--that there has to be an objective truth about this, regardless of whether we have any way to determine it empirically. Jesse -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
