On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 6:16 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Tackling thing technically will save lots or preaching, in emails, and > public speaking. For example, if you cook all your food by wood-gathering, > you are more likely to disrupt the forests by your gatherings. If you have > access to cheap solar, wind, and maybe natural gas lines, then the urge for > gathering wood and chopping trees three times a day diminishes. On the > other hand if you want Bobby Bureaucrat to run your life, even if his laws > don't actively change whatever you wish to achieve (air quality?), then > you're good with that. Looking over the last 20 years, government, rather > then being a beneficial force, now appears, worldwide, to be a malign > force. If you are wanting results that please you, then perhaps, despite > their promises and guarantees, the politicians and the billionaires that > own them, have failed mightily. Feel free to disagree with this > observation. >
What observation? Forest gathering? Bobby Bureaucrat? Evil government on every level? Green conspiracy of the rich billionaires? I don't know if I'd call these points arguments. They are more black and white cartoons from Hannity, Fox, Limbaugh etc. I can't see what you want as you are aware that there is long term need for sustainable energy + you praise romantically "sky, forest, oceans etc." and yet you checkmate yourself because this would be playing into the hand of the green-marxist government conspiracy theory. Ok, it's easy to call everybody names and defend nothing really, with such position. But I do not see "technical observations", a solid position to argue from, or where you're going with this. PGC -----Original Message----- > From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy <[email protected]> > To: everything-list <[email protected]> > Sent: Thu, Mar 20, 2014 10:32 am > Subject: Re: The situation at Fukushima appears to be deteriorating > > > > > On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 2:55 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Very well, go ahead and power it all down. Shut off the cars, kill the >> lights, take a bike. Are you suggesting that we continue to burn filthy >> coal, or horrible uranium, while we try to goose up solar and wind to >> replace it?!! Why that will take decades and the catastrophe is already >> upon us. The heating of the atmosphere and the degradation of the lands and >> seas, cannot wait (your guys tell us). Or what are they really saying, put >> into motion in real life? It comes down to a culture of complaint from the >> green-reds, rather than actual workable solutions. I want technical >> solutions, but then, I am in the minority, as you indicate, and your side >> (and it is your side) wants people controlled and dominated (impoverished) >> and I see myself as someone who'd rather help people, liberate them, rather >> that 'manage' them. If I was one of the people who decided things, what >> would you do? >> > > You are one of the people who decides things. > > Energy costs are on the rise, no matter our political outlooks. You can > decide to take a risk to try and mitigate this, which is complex and not as > easy as listing your political preferences and intolerance. > > You talk "I'm in minority", which does not make sense because the majority > of the world is not taking steps to make energy and environment more > sustainable. You are in the majority, talking/chatting and not doing. Even > if you feel you're in the minority: do something. > > You talk "liberating people"... then do it and save us the sermon. > > You talk "anti-state" but you advocate inaction. So basically the right > for us to live in the effects of our trash/wasteful behavior, complaining > about powerful interests, that through your inaction and ideological fox > chanting extend their range by just another person. > > You talk "technical solutions" and you hope for some revolution among > engineers. Good luck with that, but why judge people with a more nuanced > and differentiated approach to the problems you state, who will not > hope/wait for instructions or engineer revolution and start to plan and > invest in transition means to mitigating energy's rising costs? > > The question has long shifted from your black and white "yes-no" to the > grey complexities of real life with "how" on local, personal, and global > levels. If you don't see this, then why keep preaching your political > stance? Just be as wasteful as you can for as long as you can, before > somebody shows up and says: "Business as usual will keep costs rising and > poverty increasing, which we can't sustain long term; this behavior is > stupid." Join fossil fuel lobby or something. Well paid job and you'll be > more effective there than on this list, regarding this set of problems. PGC > > > > >> No it doesn't have to... it's not because it can't currently replace >> everything that it can't replace part of it... and it does thanks you're >> not the one who decide things. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> >> To: everything-list <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thu, Mar 20, 2014 9:36 am >> Subject: Re: The situation at Fukushima appears to be deteriorating >> >> >> >> >> 2014-03-20 14:34 GMT+01:00 <[email protected]>: >> >>> Please remember, solar, to remediate, must replace all nat gas, all >>> coal, all uranium, all petro that all cities and cars. >>> >> >> No it doesn't have to... it's not because it can't currently replace >> everything that it can't replace part of it... and it does thanks you're >> not the one who decide things. >> >> Quentin >> >> >>> There are wonderful looking projects that have been proposed for 50 >>> years, that for technical reasons, cannot achieve much, other than getting >>> cheers from admirers in the media. I love it too, but it must do the >>> rugged, robust, work, of replacement of the dirty-to be any good at all. It >>> cannot simply be artist work on paper and splashed to the tech heads. My >>> point: propaganda doesn't feed empty stomachs. >>> >>> If that solar farm described in SciAm had been realised it would have >>> been carried out by a democratically elected government, not a dictatorship >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: LizR <[email protected]> >>> To: everything-list <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Wed, Mar 19, 2014 6:10 pm >>> Subject: Re: The situation at Fukushima appears to be deteriorating >>> >>> On 20 March 2014 07:10, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Here's an article that informs me, if nobody else, how complicated >>>> the climate thing is. >>>> >>>> http://phys.org/news/2014-03-goldilocks-principle-hypothesis-earth-habitability.html >>>> >>>> Beyond that I agree with John on his estimate of cutting the standard >>>> of living down, to fit the ideal "environmental foot print." Improving the >>>> standard of living with better energy technology will sustain the billions >>>> and flourish the ecosystem-if done right. Technology is the answer, sans, >>>> government rule of the public. Dictatorships, even well-meaning ones, are >>>> horrible. Use Mao's approach to agricultural production during the Great >>>> Leap Forward from 1958-62, as a prime example. >>>> >>>> If that solar farm described in SciAm had been realised it would >>> have been carried out by a democratically elected government, not a >>> dictatorship. Part of the point of having a government is to provide things >>> that no individual or profit-based organisation would wish to do, such as >>> building motorways, communications networks, hospitals, schools, power >>> plants, rail networks, and other infrastructure. This would apply to some >>> clean power schemes that are too large for a private investor, which >>> applies to (some) tidal, wind, hydro, solar, nuclear etc. I can't imagine >>> many private companies would have been building nuclear power plants off >>> their own bat in the 1950s. >>> >>> So we need government to do stuff above the level that private >>> enterprise can manage. Dictatorship is simply government done wrong. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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