Hee Hee! This is an ancient Hindu joke where the Guru and the King were having a discussion on reality. The Guru held the world was maya (illusion) and the King thought otherwise. While discussing this, the King and the Guru accidently walk up the trail of a Bull elephant during rutting season. The elephant turned and charged at the King and the Guru. Both men escaped and continued the discussion. "So, the King said, do you still think that everything is an illusion?" "Yes,the Guru replied, everything is all maya, an illusion." The King said: "But when the elephant charged I saw you running!" The Guru replied, "Yes, your majesty, but that too, was an illusion."
-----Original Message----- From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, Apr 11, 2014 12:44 pm Subject: Re: My scepticism took a small knock today On 10 Apr 2014, at 20:52, [email protected] wrote: Interesting, Professor Marchal. From what I have read some lucid dreamers can actually feel the metal top of a car, or the feel of a wooden fence as the dream 'walks' by. Plus, the dreamer knows he is dreaming. There is a California university psychologist who teaches his students how to get themselves to dream,lucidly. The psychologist believes that all the biblical visions of the Bible were all, in fact, lucid dreams. You can even buy or build "lucid dream" machine, which can help some people to awaken in the dream, and be lucid. (just search the net on "lucid dream machine"). It's fascinating and the thought comes to mind (my mind) that it's all a solipsism. My question then, would be, who is the dreamer? An indian was pleased to teach philosophy in lucid dreams, and he took pleasure to mock the audience by pretending *he* was the dreamer, and that he controls everything, and that the others where existing only thanks to him. Eventually, a guy of the audience came to him with a wood stick and begun to strike him, and then asked him "are you really sure you know who is the dreamer and who is in control", and continued to strike him until he woke up! :) Bruno -----Original Message----- From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, Apr 10, 2014 12:34 pm Subject: Re: My scepticism took a small knock today On 10 Apr 2014, at 12:57, LizR wrote: On 10 April 2014 22:54, <[email protected]> wrote: Dream better, please. Controlling your dreams is a whole new ballgame, or so I've been led to believe. My feeling is that controlling is a nuisance for lucidity, or even just the quality of a dream. The lucid dream can become like a day-dream fantasy if you let yourself take the whole control. You can develop easily typical recurring "control" habits. It took me many years to no more fly in lucid dreams, and just walk and get on with the dream. I would say that on the contrary, the more you abandon control, the more big is the chance to be unexpectedly surprised and led to a "big dream". It is similar with some psychotropics, and perhaps with life, and ... (of course!) computer science, where universality entails partial control only (if your remember the proof?). Is it a new ballgame? The French and Dutch wrote quite impressive books on lucid dreams in the 19th century, but before Jouvet, Hearne, LaBerge, Dement, etc. that was out the domain of science (for bad reasons). Dreams constitutes the royal path to metaphysics and doubt. The indian yoga vasistha, like the whole platonism (in my opinion) is based on that idea. It is easy to become lucid in one dream, but it can be hard, if not impossible, to *remain* lucid in the many dreams. Bruno -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
