On 21 Apr 2014, at 17:46, ghib...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, April 19, 2014 8:05:20 AM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 18 Apr 2014, at 22:33, ghi...@gmail.com wrote:
Physorg runs a report today in which brain abnormalities are linked
with cannabis use,
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-04-casual-marijuana-linked-brain-abnormalities.html#ajTabs
Sounds pretty serious.
Sure, and we have to take all data into account. What that paper
show is just negligible compared to the use of alcohol. Also, they
talk about joint, which is not marjiuana, but a mixture tobacco and
marijuana, and it is not clear if they have verified that the person
did not also drink alcohol. Then all studies I read shows that
cannabis augments the number of neurons, and it is not clear in what
sense those deformations constitutes a problem.
You haven't been forthcoming about the evidence for serious brain
damage as a result of cannabis. When I said I'd seen two friends
institutionalised, you didn't acknowledge, yes there is serious
evidence for brain damage of this kind. You didn't do that.
I only said that two cases are not a statistics. Then the references
given talk on multiuplication of neurons, and yes, both nicotine and
some cannabinoids seems to have that property, but unless you show me
evidence of a role in deformation or brain damage, statsitically
relevant, I consider this as speculation.
You are apparently making the same sort of mistake as you do over on
climate threads. Taking everything into account, is not a case of
any two lines of evidence, one being negative one being positive,
can be compared and played off against one another.
I will aske you to quote me. I don't even remember having taking part
in the climate thread, except to say I am not an expert on climate,
and explain that my common sense would encourage two always chose the
less polluting alternative, and I illustrate that this is difficult
with the corporate interests (well illustrated in the Hemp/Oil
alternative last century).
Evidence for serious brain damage, can be compared to evidence for
serious brain enhancements...or neutral effects. In the event of
neutral effects, then the median would still be in the negative,
since the other evidence is for serious brain damage.
Comparing to alcohol, which is already legal and embedded into
society, is not a sort of, opportunity for an open season arguing
for other harmful substances be embedded into society in the same way.
Why, we can measure brain damage after the ingestion of one glass on
wine, and the evidences are that alcohol is *far* more damaging than
cannabis, at many levels. So if people are informed on the risks,
cannabis can be a safer alternative.
A good book written by cops of LEAP on that very point is: "Marijuana
is Safer: So Why Are We Driving People to Drink?":
http://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Safer-Driving-People-Drink/dp/1603581448/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Cannabis is clearly a very mixed bag. There is clearly some very
worrying evidence linking cannabis to mental illness.
That point is controversial. The link might be due to the fact that
cannabis seems to help people with mental illness.
Again, for the illegality, we would expect a comparison with alcohol
and legal medication.
There is also a lot of individual testimony linking cannabis to a
collapse in most interest in life, ambition, goals, responsibilities.
This is something which I have stopped to believe.
I know someone who took for 10 years cannabis as a sleeping pill. One
day, I told him, he could also use it remain alert and awake (he got a
lot of work, and search something to work the night). He tried this
with success.
All case of "lost motivation" seems to be in case of people lacking
motivation, and used cannabis to pretext their lack of motivation. But
of course when the adult around plays the "exepected role",
dramatizing the situation and glad to have a simple culprit (the drug
evil).
On all user, cannabis enchance the motivation, and amplifies the
pleasure people can have with any pleasing thing (be it, sex, music,
video, TV, movies, climbing, surfing, or doing math (for those who
like), etc. It is, like alcohol, (but safer) mainly a life appetizer
(unlike more typical hallucinogen or dissociative which are more
afterlife appetizers).
So there's a lot of really negative information and you want to
sweep all that under the carpet and discredit the sources. That's
very devious conduct, on the face of things.
Which sources? I discredited only your statistics.
But, anyway, I don't think it makes any sense to ban a drug, as all
studies shows that when it is illegal, you give the market to people
who will not ask the ID to their "clients". On the contrary, the
criminals will target the kids, and get the mean to sell the drug
without any price and quality control. So a proof that cannabis *is*
bad for the health is automatically a reason more to make it legal:
to protect the kids.
I agree that legalization is the only solution,
Very nice. So we agree on the main thing.
because of the serious problem of corruption now mainstream in
society as a result of organized crime.
Excellent point. prohibition jeopardizes democracy and perverts
capitalism.
The problem is not capitalism, but sick capitalism.
Health must be separate from the state, like religion.
I think the only safe way to legalize would be to ramp up individual
and company rights....specifically allowing one person to require
another person does not use ...certain drugs, ever, or at certain
times...as a condition of a legal contract...including employment,
marriage, membership of a club..whatever.
People wouldn't have to require that, but they'd have the right. I
think it would be safe to legalize drugs in that sort of situation,
because drugs use would immediately be swept to the periphery. But
organized crime would be killed off at the same time. It would also
probably have to be multilateral in implementation.
OK.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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