On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> > We have agree that free will = will > If free will just means will then why stick on the "free" ? > = ability to make an image of an uncertain local future (will I drink tea > or coffee?), and to make choice > Did you really think you could sneak in a word like "choice" without me noticing? The ability to make a choice = the ability to have free will and the ability to have free will = ability to make a choice. And round and round we go. >>>>We have self-indeterminacy?? I could not fail to disagree with you less. >>>> >>> >>> >>>This astonished me >>> >> >> >> What astonishes you? >> > > > That you dismiss the Turing indeterminacy. I could not fail to disagree with you less. Indeterminacy means not known and in general there is no way to know what a Turing Machine will do other than just watch it and see even though there is not one ounce of randomness in it. > Usually you dismiss the first person indeterminacy. > I have never in my life said that first person indeterminacy does not exist, what I dismissed is that the discovery I sometimes don't know what I'm going to do or see next is profound and was first made by Bruno Marchal > >> I've been on this list for several years and I've yet to find one >> person who could add anything of interest to the "free will" noise, a sound >> that many like to make with their mouth. There are endless debates about if >> human beings have "free will" or not but both sides of the argument quite >> literally don't know what they're arguing about. It's as if geometers where >> debating if squares were klogneated or unklogneated but nobody thinks to >> ask what klogneated means. >> > > > Only bad philosophers do that. > OK I won't argue the point, but that is exactly what happens whenever the subject of free will comes up on this list. And if only bad philosophers do that then, well,... I will leave it as a exercise to the reader to form a conclusion from that fact. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
