2014-07-16 19:22 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>:
>
> On 15 Jul 2014, at 22:14, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>
>
>
>
> 2014-07-15 22:10 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>:
>
>>
>> On 14 Jul 2014, at 17:25, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-07-14 17:13 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>:
>>
>>>
>>> On 14 Jul 2014, at 12:53, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-07-14 12:09 GMT+02:00 Samiya Illias <[email protected]>:
>>>
>>>> Why do you need to see God to believe in God?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why should you believe if you can know ? If you can't, why should you
>>> believe instead of not believing or go eating an hamburger ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Seeing might make you know *that* you see, but it does not entail that
>>> you know *what* you see, as you might be dreaming or hallucinating.
>>>
>>
>> That wasn't what I was implying... I see not point to "believe" or not
>> "believe"... Why *shoud* I believe anyway ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Just to clear things up, I use the common part of all "analytical
>> definition of belief theory and knowledge theory", and in particular
>> (knowing p) -> (believing p).
>>
>> If you know that there is milk in the fridge, you believe that there is
>> milk in the fridge.
>>
>> The key difference is that the reciprocal is false. If you believe there
>> is milk in the fridge , you can still "not know it".
>>
>
> Well I can accept such language in mathematics where you make clear what
> is meant, not in every day use.... when someone says he *believes* in god,
>
>
> I use "believe" in the same mundane sense that "I believe that there is
> orange juice in the fridge,
>
I believe in *god* is not like I believe there is orange juice in the
fridge.
> and later like in I believe in the axiom of elementary arithmetic and in
> its first order logical consequence, or in "I don't believe the machine k
> will stop on the input j.
>
>
>
>
> that's not what he meant... That's what I don't like in your approach to
> insist using everyday word in everyday language *but* with your own
> mathematical meaning. It's misleading you should see it.
>
>
> I use "belief" in the doxastic sense of the analytical philosophers. Iuse
> "belief" in the sense of Theaetetus, Gerson, etc.
>
You use those words in a misleading way... You do what you want of
course... but you're clearly totally misunderstood when you talk to a
believer.
Quentin
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
> Quentin
>
>
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> In general you believe something, not because you see it, but because it
>>> fits well with your background knowledge. I can't see the set {0, 1, 2,
>>> ...}, nor really define it, yet I hardly doubt that it makes sense, as it
>>> explains a lot of other things in which I already tend to believe (like the
>>> non existence of a bigger prime, or the existence of universal numbers, the
>>> real numbers, etc.).
>>>
>>> Bruno
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quentin
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 14-Jul-2014, at 2:14 am, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 7/13/2014 3:47 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sure: "Do you believe in a theist god?"
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to.
>>>>
>>>> *So we can keep using the word "theology" and keep some academic
>>>> departments that have no subject.*
>>>>
>>>> This would also include political science, arts, gender studies,
>>>> french literature. Are you willing to go that far, and make what doesn't
>>>> build bridges or bake bread, something to be learned as a podcast? Sauce
>>>> for the goose, sauce for the gander. Dump them all. Right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I can point to art, people with genders, and french literature. I've
>>>> run a political campaign. But I've never seen a god.
>>>>
>>>> Brent
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy
>>> Batty/Rutger Hauer)
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>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy
>> Batty/Rutger Hauer)
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>
>
>
> --
> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy
> Batty/Rutger Hauer)
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All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy
Batty/Rutger Hauer)
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