On 20 Jul 2014, at 16:32, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:




On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

On 20 Jul 2014, at 03:00, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:




On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 2:21 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 7/14/2014 7:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Now, if you are interested in experiencing the (rather common) God "hallucination", there are technic for that (fasting, sleep deprivation, magic mushrooms, LSD, salvia, near death experiences, etc.).

Really? That will allow me to see the unprovable truths of arithmetic? I'll be able to see whether the twin-primes conjecture is among them? Great.

Of course you have a point: 1p unprovable arithmetic truth can be bogus and tacky at times,

Arithmetical truth are true, by definition.

I was referring to possible 1st person experience, and if my memory serves me, not all of Ramanujan's visions were proven true.

OK. When false, it is no more in arithmetical truth.
You are right. Amazingly, some crazy formula by Ramanujan are were false. Some remains unproved and unrefuted, and many have been proved, some with Ramanujan help.




Of course his success rate is tremendous (interesting question in itself, this number...) and his presence on our historical map should represent a firm argument for searching altered states and greater liberality and humility facing others' pursuit of personal theology, whoever the gods.

Agreed.






Whenever I read posts condemning "some religious practice as obviously ridiculous vs. the paradigms that I hold dear" and the smart huffing, puffing, and flattery between similar position, I just shrug and think that this just shows falling into quite obvious trap.

Yes. In the same spirit I usually answer only post where I find a disagreement, unless the fact that I do agree can add something (in case people have some reason to think I will disagree for example).

Now I certainly do condemn some religious practice, like some form of African mutilation done on some woman, and deprived them for a normal sexual life. I condemn all religious practice leading to violence or hurting people.

But that is a bit like I condemn the use of hard drugs for the pilot of planes. It is common sense.




There are also non refutable falsities, and Eric solved the problem I gave him, to prove that [PA + some consistent but false proposition in arithmetic] can augment the ability of PA to prove some true arithmetic statement, which explains why even "evolution", not just the government, can lie.

Nice, but not the best news somehow... consistent but false.


Yes. the most typical example is "PA is inconsistent". This is typically false, but PA cannot refute it, as PA cannot prove "[]f ->f" (""I am inconsistent" leads to false"; PA would then prove its own consistency, contradicting Gödel second I. theorem).






So we can congratulate politician for upholding prohibition because it's only "education"?

May be we need to that kind of error to just learn that it is erroneous, but I doubt so.

I just said that inconsistency might be needed to prove "true" theorem, but it is not clear if we have to go through this.

What happens is that we can expect some lies from nature, like when spider makes bird believing they are ants.

But this is what Platonist expect, as they are willing to believe that we are most of the type lied about the appearances.




Also is Eric's work you refer to on your site or online? PGC

No, alas. And Eric was used to explain things on tram tickets) or toilet paper, or anything in place of a diary or computer memory. But I should have it in some of my own diary. I will look for it.

Bruno





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